this post was submitted on 12 Oct 2023
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Pressure grows on Apple to open up iMessage::Samsung has joined Google’s campaign to force Apple to make iMessage RCS-compatible—but European regulators are more likely to get that job done.

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[–] [email protected] 126 points 1 year ago (20 children)

The pressure doesn't matter, apple makes a legitimate amount of money from people scared of being a different colored bubble. Unless someone actually writes it into law and makes a provision that all the bubbles must appear the same, nothing will change

[–] [email protected] 155 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (22 children)

This is weirdly only a thing in America. In Europe, where I live, iMessage isn’t that popular and iPhone users never seem to care about the bubble colour (likely because WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal, Element, and Threema are so popular, everyone is used to using multiple chat apps anyway).

Edit: Also I’m not sure why everyone is championing RCS - it’s yet another proprietary communication standard like iMessage and isn’t open thus can’t be easily implemented in other chat apps.

Rather then pressure Apple to support and further popularise another closed protocol, we should be pushing for something open like Matrix or Signal.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago (2 children)

: Also I’m not sure why everyone is championing RCS - it’s yet another proprietary communication standard like iMessage and isn’t open thus can’t be easily implemented in other chat apps.

RCS is an implementation of GSMA Universal Profile and is interoperable with it

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (8 children)

I don’t see any public license for GSMA Universal Profile and it seems you have to engage directly with GSMA to get any detail on the standard. Very much the opposite of things like Signal which not only are the standards public but so are the reference implementations.

I still don’t see an argument for why yet another proprietary standard and protocol is a good thing.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Also yesterday, Reuters reported that the European Commission has begun trying to establish whether iMessage should be brought under the remit of the EU’s new antitrust law, the Digital Markets Act, which imposes interoperability requirements (among other things) on so-called gatekeeper services that are part of many people’s daily lives.

Apple’s iOS operating system, App Store, and Safari browser already fall under the DMA, which is likely to force Apple to allow third-party app stores on iPhones and iPads, but Apple so far managed to lobby the Commission into leaving iMessage out of it. If the Commission decides after its investigation that iMessage is worth regulating in this way, Apple would have until August next year to introduce some form of interoperability—presumably with RCS.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

Two related issues are being confused/conflated here.

The first is the American cultural significance of the green and blue bubbles. This is the thing that Europeans generally don't care about as most are using WhatsApp et. al.

The second is the lack of interoperability between chat protocols such that it degrades the experience for everyone. This is what the EU is targeting.

I don't think the colours of chat bubbles for specific devices as displayed by other specific devices falls under that remit. The implementor must comply with providing the same service level though. Whether or not this will lead to less cultural significance for bubble hues in the US remains to be seen.

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[–] [email protected] 75 points 1 year ago (22 children)

Unless the EU makes them use RCS they never will. In the US iMessage is literally THE REASON people buy the iPhone. It's their main selling point. They don't care how much pressure you place on them, they aren't going to lose those sales willingly.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 year ago (6 children)

I have seen people literally say they like that iMessage is exclusive, and they like to keep Android users away/separate

It was reeking of classism in addition to being generally a terrible thing to read

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I've heard of people not responding to the wrong colored bubbles or being judgemental, like my $1,200 phone is better than your $1,200 phone?

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (15 children)
[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Nothing. Google Messages app has all the same features. The only problem is that Apple refuses to also support RCS (which Google messages uses) and so if an android user sends a message to an iPhone user, the iPhone user gets it as an SMS. If the Android user sends a picture, the iPhone user receives it as an MMS.

In the rest of the world this is not an issue because most people use WhatsApp or Signal or Viber or any other local messaging app. Also most android phones have the Messages app as default which means if you message another Android user they will get it over WiFi/data in the messages app.

But in the US for some reason the iPhone users consider getting an SMS as somehow bad and that the Android user is poor or inferior because they sent an SMS.

It's totally stupid and only a US issue, but it's so strong that teenagers will be bullied if they don't have an iPhone for iMessage. So they all get iPhones in order not to be bullied. And this way Apple makes mega sales.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is the reason I got my first IPhone. This is also the same reason why I left IPhone.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

The fact that other people they know also use it.

The app itself is pretty much the same as any other modern messaging app, but network effects are everything when it comes to messaging services.

This is why you see entire countries where everyone has WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger or Telegram, depending on what other people in the country are using.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The EU has dragged Apple through the mud in order to make them change for the better, they will be able to do the same.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If what the first commenter said is true. They will just implement RCS or an alternative in the EU and make up some reason why they can't or won't for the US market.

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[–] [email protected] 74 points 1 year ago (4 children)

My issue with RCS is its only open to other device makers, like you can't make RCS apps cause you need a special license. Its a closed system that on android will likely always depend on google

[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago (6 children)

The idea of making Apple use it is also part of Google giving the operations to carriers, just like SMS, and then gradually replacing SMS altogether. Google isn't even supposed to be running the RCS servers. But they did it in order to get the standard up and running everywhere. It's an open standard, and multiple carriers in several countries are on their way to carrying the burden of the servers, the way the standard is supposed to operate. Once it's operating, all servers can talk to each other, just like you can SMS a person on another carrier line. RCS will allow universal rich texting.

Surely XMPP and other standards are different and I would prefer any other than something championed by Google. But the truth is, that the other standards aren't invited to sit at the right tables and don't offer the same “replace SMS once and for all” potential the way RCS does. XMPP for example is super expensive to escalate and like almost all of the traffic is just presence messaging, which is super wasteful and energy intensive on servers. RCS is not the best, but it's one that all carriers and telecommunications agencies are on board for replacing the archaic SMS. And it doesn't preclude using other protocols. Like, WhatsApp, Signal, Matrix and Telegram will still continue to exist.

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 year ago (2 children)

"Lol, no." -Tim Cook, probably.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago

"Hell yes" - the EU, definitely

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I remember Steve Jobs stating on stage that the protocol will be opened up when iMessage was revealed. Apparently this statement surprised the developers of it, because they didn’t know anything about that (based on some rumors).

Then that statement was silently ignored.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It was FaceTime, not iMessage. The reason the developers were surprised was that they didn’t own the tech, and Apple lost a patent lawsuit about it and almost had to remove FaceTime entirely. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-20236114 https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/apple-s-facetime-open-standard-never-happened

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Oh you're right, I misremembered.

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They aren't going to budge, at least not willingly.

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 year ago (9 children)

This is where the EU could really make it a reality.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

....or even better: end iMsg

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I have zero interest in using any Apple service. I've never needed to, and I never will.

They can keep their imessage thing, I hadn't even heard of it until just now. I'm good.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (4 children)

It's incompatible with Android on purpose. They want their users shaming non apple users in to getting an iPhone.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Nobody I know uses iMessage (or RCS for that matter) here in Germany. Most people use WhatsApp.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago

I think this is an American problem

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Not nobody, it's number three after WhatsApp and Facebook Messenger (both owned by Meta).

So yeah, the EU is definitely focusing on Meta, but iMessage, Signal and RCS (Google) are large enough to all be in scope of the regulation.

I don't know if things like Snapchat are also in scope.

Edit: got corrected below. WhatsApp and Messenger are in scope, iMessage is being reviewed.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (4 children)

People keep getting messages the app and iMessage the protocol confused. While never written that way (as far as naming goes), I’ve seen nothing to indicate that the EU isn’t just saying that Messages the app doesn’t just need hooks to allow third party apps to integrate into the one interface. It’s about adding more bubble colors as it were. So stuff like WhatsApp would just pop up in the same feed over whatever protocol it uses.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (5 children)

What happended with forcing interoperability with different services like WhatsApp and Messenger? Would be great if we could just have one app for all messages like on Windows Phone back in the day 🙏

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (12 children)

I don't get why people like RCS in this context. It has the same problem as iMessage.

On Android you have to use Google Messages to get it. Third party apps don't work with it because Google never opened it up to them. How common is RCS without Google Messages? Even on Samsung phones it goes via Google.

How common is iMessage without an Apple product?

Why does Google want them to use iMessage? Probably since the data would flow through them.

Same shiz, different company.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 year ago

RCS is just a standard, much like how SMS is just a standard. Google's Messaging app is just one implementation of it, though it probably is the most popular in the US it is not the only one, nor is Google able to decide who cannot use it. Carriers typically have their own, though you may have recently heard that T-Mobile decided to switch over to Google's.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago

As someone else said RCS is just the new global standard replacing SMS that apple does not want to support because it weakens their walled garden.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago

RCS is an open standard created by GSMA, not a Google product. Google and Samsung just have the most popular "flavours" of RCS

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (4 children)

It works on Textra just fine

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (15 children)

I would love if they would just roll out an iMessage app to android. Ideally free.

I could realistically see them roll out an apple subscription pack to android eventually. Give users a way to access Apple Music, Fitness, etc. May even allow android users make use of Apple Watch.

I’m not an Apple fan boy, but this seems like a decent compromise from a business perspective. This meets a need and I don’t think there’s a decent enough argument that it would cannibalize iPhone sales (flagship models anyway)

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (15 children)

I'll just carry on using whatapps and people on iPhones can either download it or put up with my different coloured bubbles if they don't want too. Luckily people in the UK are all mostly on WhatsApp anyway, this who text message colours is a very yank centric problem.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (17 children)

Signal or at least Telegram or Viber. Fuck WhatsApp, I'd like at least my messenger app to not belong to Facebook of all companies.

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