this post was submitted on 06 Oct 2023
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Privacy

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cross-posted from: https://kerala.party/post/347631

which is more effective, useful, and efficient?

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[–] [email protected] 46 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Ideally you'd use both. Something like a pihole to serve as a first wall of defense for the entire network, and then additional things like uBlock Origin for any device with a browser that supports it, for some more granular control.

I'm the kind of person who also uses the hosts file from DivestOS on my PC, because why not. Always fun to see how the pihole doesn't have to block anything on that device because of this.

On that note, Safings' Portmaster is a nice app if you want to have a graphical overview of what's going on on a device.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Ideally you'd use both. Something like a pihole to serve as a first wall of defense for the entire network, and then additional things like uBlock Origin for any device with a browser that supports it, for some more granular control.

This is how I keep my home setup.

The pihole has a fairly loose blocking setup because some people in the house need access to things that would normally get blocked and I'm not spending weeks unblocking specific things until everyone is happy.

Behind the pihole everyone has their own suite of browser extensions and software to block what they would like at a much more personal level.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago

Funny (to me) story when I ran pi-hole in a house with housemates (all friends): I bought an rpi zero and installed pi-hole on it. I notified all housemates that I would be installing an adblocker on the network so if anyone has any problems with sites not working to just let me know.

Years go by and finally the rpi zero dies which makes the internet inaccessible as the router was pointing to it. I reconfigure the network back to default in the meantime. I didn't have time to update everyone before one of my housemates made a funny comment.

He mentions that the internet is working again! And something else, he's now able to click on Google search result ads!

Because I don't use Google search I never realised Google ads links were being blocked, and even if I did I wouldn't have realised how common it is for people to rely on the ads!

After some discussion with this housemate he confessed he actually likes seeing ads as it could show him stuff he wants to buy. Needless to say I didn't bother putting pi-hole back on the network.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago

I'm not too annoyed by whitelisting certain things, doesn't happen all too often for our household. So my pihole is fairly strict already, with over one million domains blocked.

Because honestly, I love my familiy, but I can't trust them to block the right things, and I want them to be as safe and unbothered by ads as possible.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Well DNS based blocking has its problems mainly devices bypassing your network defined DNS with some encrypted DNS(DoT,DoH) or using hardcoded custom DNS servers.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You are able to force devices to use a specified DNS. even when they have hard coded DNS in them. Your router/firewall must be able to support redirection of network traffic though.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago (2 children)

This probably won't work if the hard coded DNS is DNS over HTTPS

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Yes but I think only very few applications use a hard coded DNS server. And under all those applications who use a hard coded DNS server is probably a very low percentage that uses encrypted DNS.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Or just a hardcoded IP, lol

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (2 children)

A hard coded IP would mean it's unencrypted DNS which can be force-redirected to your router with NAT rules.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

True, don't know how I missed that.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You need to use an IP address (as opposed to FQDN) for DNS because when your computer starts up, it won't be able to resolve the FQDN to do DNS lookups.

Cloudflare DNS over TLS famously is using the IP address of 1.1.1.1: https://developers.cloudflare.com/1.1.1.1/encryption/dns-over-tls/

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

A. Device part of a business infrastructure:
Just don't change anything; those policy are there for a reason!

B. Consumer device:
1/ If we're talking about proprietary hardware/software forcing your network to use a specific DNS, then you need to provide more details because you should be able to change it.

2/ There is also the case for a malware:
A fresh start is preferable.
Disinfect the system while offline, then back up the needed files.
Reinstall the system on a new/old formatted drive.
With the exception of taking your privacy/security seriously this time.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

Sounds like you shouldn't use those devices. I go for custom software personally so I can control the device itself

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago

Why do one? Both work in their own way.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago (3 children)

What is local app based tracker blocking ? Like ublock origin?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (3 children)

On Android, DuckDuckGo provide an app called App Tracking Protection which blocks everything trying to track you/phone home via the apps you've got installed. Drawbacks are you that you can't run a VPN client at the same time.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago

Internally these types of apps are using DNS based blocking similar to this app https://f-droid.org/packages/dnsfilter.android/

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Install nextdns on your router and unlock origin on your browser.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

Firefox with Ublock Origin, Router forwarded DNS over TLS to NextDNS. Plus firewall rules to forward all DNS from LAN to the router, on mobile same browser and using Android native DNS over TLS forward to NextDNS

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (8 children)

NextDNS is in the cloud, the cloud is just someone elses computer. You have to trust it really hard.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Well, you will always need an upstream DNS server to surf the internet. Even your DNS server in your LAN needs an upstream DNS server or it can't resolve domain names. This means whatever upstream DNS server you use you need trust it. Imo NextDNS is a good choice here.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

A DNS server can use root hints to resolve addresses rather than needing an upstream DNS server.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Root hints are DNS data stored in a DNS server. The root hints provide a list of preliminary resource records that can be used by the DNS service to locate other DNS servers that are authoritative for the root of the DNS domain namespace tree.

Source

This just means that your local DNS server doesn't need to use the root DNS servers to resolve domain names but instead uses other authorative DNS servers in the internet to resolve your queries. So anyway you have to trust an upstream DNS server owned by someone else in the internet. There's no way around it unless you use hyperlocal.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (6 children)

But tbh NextDNS is the least good one. I use pihole with 1.1.1.1 upstream. I mean Nextdns could literally remove a "sponsor" from ur blacklist without ur knowledge. On local blocker not

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

It's the exact same how I use it. Imo this is the best solution.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Honestly I use both on my phone via RethinkDNS, which also can act as a firewall.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

How does it compare to NextDNS? i've never heard of it but it looks good!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (3 children)

For me its a moot point - my ISP doesn't allow altering DNS on my router so I just installed Mullvad on all my devices and use their DNS.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago (1 children)

There shouldn’t be any reason you can’t change the DNS setting on your devices though, right? You’re not required to use your router for DNS.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Correct - hence my comment about using Mullvads.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You don't need to use Mullvad to change your local machine's DNS, and as long as you can do that, you can set up a pihole on your network to handle DNSad blocking still.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

No I know in don't need to use Mullvad to change my local machines DNS, but I'm using it anyway so may as well.

But I am curious about I could get other networked devices to use DNS on my local machine. Do you mean set up a hotspot and point everything to that?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

I think they might be talking about manual configuration. Some systems let you configure DNS separately from IP configuration. (So you could set up custom DNS while using DHCP) With some you'd have to set static IP as well, which might not be convenient but also possible.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago

I disabled DHCP on the ISP router and my rsspberry pi with Pihole is the DHCP server now, serving it's own IP address as DNS for all devices.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

dual nat setup is probably something you should look at

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I'm trying to find the article but it looks like just a question?

Local lets you customize what you want to block, which lists to subscribe to and quickly change settings or disable blocking which is useful for troubleshooting when something doesn't load. However local apps (I'm talking smartphone apps) can be blocked or routing https traffic through those apps can be refused by the apps you are filtering.

DNS filtering will let you filter all your devices at once but I don't think you have much control over what's exactly being blocked and it's less convenient to pause filtering (switch DNS).

If you're talking about tracker blocking on PC rather than mobile then it's a no brainer - use uBlock Origin addon your browser and you're golden.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Do I need a DNS-based blocker with ProtonVPN? From what I gather, ProtonVPN has its own adblocking DNS servers.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

Depends on your needs. The problems with DNS servers from ProtonVPN, Mullvad and so on is that they use their own filter rules and you can't castumize them to your needs. You can probably go much stricter with what you want to block if you use a DNS based adblocker where you can manage your own filter rules.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

open source proxy / DNS blocker don't (or shouldn't) have commercial agendas & obligations that commercial OS & Browsers may impose.

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