this post was submitted on 16 May 2025
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[–] [email protected] 33 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Cmon bro, just one more reform, bro. It will fix the system. Bro, i promise. Bro, bro its going to serve us all. This time realy, bro.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Funny, the revolution is the one not spinning...

[–] [email protected] 20 points 5 days ago (2 children)

The one not spinning endlessly in a trapped cycle, yes. That's the point, the reform side is "moving" in place, never actually moving nor is it capable of moving. The revolution van is capable of moving.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 days ago

I think they're making a joke that one of the definitions of "revolution" is making a complete circle. In the cartoon, "reform" is making a ton of revolutions.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 5 days ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 days ago

Ah, I'm stupid, got it now!

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 days ago (4 children)

There's a sticking point that no one's been able to explain to me:

If you're in the minority, revolution is against the democratic will of the people.

If you're in the majority, you have the votes to actually accomplish something with reform. It's not like we live in a monarchy, reform is possible under our system.

If reform isn't working to bring about your goals, either your goals aren't popular enough, or they are popular but the people lack the will and organization to vote for them.

If the people lack the will and organization to vote effectively, they certainly lack the will and organization to topple the government.

My area of expertise is managing complex systems and change implementation. I sincerely don't understand how revolution is supposed to work where reform doesn't. No one has been able to give me an answer that doesn't bill down to idealistic hope. How is this revolution supposed to be implemented, and why can't we build the foundation for revolution while simultaneously using the tools we have for reform? Wouldn't widespread support for reform be the best possible proof of consensus?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago

This assumes that everyone is equally politically informed and engaged, and that everyone has given governance as much thought as one another.

The sad reality is a huge portion of people sleepwalk through life and they'd get by the same in a democracy vs. feudalism vs. socialism.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 days ago

If you’re in the majority, you have the votes to actually accomplish something with reform.

Believing in santaclaus at least gets you presents...

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 days ago

departs when full

I love this detail.

[–] [email protected] 52 points 6 days ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Such a great passage.

Was this If We Burn or Jakarta Method?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 days ago

Jakarta Method

[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

Another more recent example is "21th century socialism" in latin america, one by one they've gone to shit. Even the ones still standing are one election cycle away from going to shit, it's all it takes to disassemble a reformist path.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 days ago (1 children)

And even if they triumph again and again, what's stopping an opportunist from slipping through the ranks when the people have no shot at pulling the fucker back down?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 days ago

Which is literally what happened in Ecuador.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (15 children)

The AI haters will hate this, but I think AI is gonna provide the push that forces the fundamental changes we want. You can only replace so many people with AI and robots. The theoretical point of zero employees also means zero customers, because nobody has any money to buy anything, so making employees obsolete makes business and profits obsolete. In the real world the system will change long before that point, because it will have to. It might be from food riots and social breakdown, or political movements finally taking hold, I don't know, but AI will make the profit system eat itself. I'm just not looking forward to the extremely difficult transition period.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

I want to believe you're right, but in a world where AI can fully replace human labor, that will likely also apply to the areas of mass surveillance and military suppression.

Imo, one of the scariest and most frustrating developments in robotics in the past 50 years is the ability to process billions of text and voice conversations, all at once, 24/7. Things really take a different tone when all of a sudden the US Government can find it feasible to listen to all of us, every time.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago

Yes, we're going to have these surveillance capabilities. Anti-AI memes and boycotts won't stop it. The rational choice is to develop authority structures the public can trust. Instead of treating the whole concept of authority as the enemy by default, we have to figure out a way to make it trustworthy. The question is how, and I don't have that answer but I know that's the question. I see it as kind of analogous to how providing basic income, healthcare, etc. for everybody would cut down on crimes of survival. When people aren't desperate they don't do desperate things. If making laws didn't attract money and prestige, greedy people wouldn't be part of it but public-spirited people would.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 days ago

I want to believe you're right. But everything else so far has just been a gradually applied multiplier on human labor, not a full replacement. Instead of a sudden tipping point, we'd watch each other become destitute one by one, perpetually looking out for only ourselves.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 6 days ago (4 children)
  • get on board for revolution
  • read up on theory
  • learn about the mass line
  • do mass line
  • masses demand reform.

Gotta square this circle. You definitely don't want to go down the track of being co-opted by democrats. But you absolutely cannot mobilize the masses by just telling them "wait for the revolution".

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

When the masses don't want revolution, check if they are looting the stuff of people in other countries. If they do, you know where to look for real revolutionary liberation potential.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 days ago

It takes work, and it takes emotional patience with people. Screaming at the top of our lungs that we must have revolution does nothing. We must be teachers first, show the masses that their attempts at reforms are failing. If they are rational at all, they will listen. If they are not rational, getting angry and scolding them does nothing.

The western left (and I self-criticize when I say this because it applies to me as well) tends to be very infantile, very impatient, and has relatively low levels of militancy within it. I'm a full on hoxhaist. I have a very specific view on what I want socialism to look like, and what strategies I believe are actually beneficial. That being said, if I spend the bulk of my time engaged in disrespecting other tendencies instead of doing literally anything I will never see the world I want. No bunkers will be built, and I will be sad. ☹️

The average person just wants to see us do something. How often do communist parties in the west actually organize things themselves as opposed to hopping onto some liberal groups thing? If we can't even, for example organize our own red aid in a remotely comparable way to what some rando charity is doing, we got a long ass way to go ya know? There is hardly room to bicker and try to dictate peoples lives and views until we've proven to be a force of good.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

theres no such thing as waiting for a revolution

it has to be built, and its a lot of work.

luckily if we have a lot of people on board, we can divide the work up and do quite a bunch.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 6 days ago

There's gonna be things that can be attended by direct action (union organizing, literacy, breakfast program, that kind of thing) and things that can't. I think what leftist leaders should do about the things that can only be tackled by national reform is to encourage people to vote for the progressive democrats where it makes sense; worst case, they lose and we learn nothing, but best case they win and when everyone sees them fail to change anything, it makes it a lot easier to sell people on further revolutionary action.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 days ago (2 children)

People are voting for Reform like they are different to the Conservatives…

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago

Thought this was about the UK reform party at first, still works

[–] [email protected] 14 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 25 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

not usually on your own soil (openly), but yes you do.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

Your right and that's why June 14th is the protest day - https://www.nokings.org/

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

i wish you luck and all the best

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 days ago

We only do DraftKings here!

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