this post was submitted on 03 Sep 2023
24 points (96.2% liked)

Daystrom Institute

3444 readers
15 users here now

Welcome to Daystrom Institute!

Serious, in-depth discussion about Star Trek from both in-universe and real world perspectives.

Read more about how to comment at Daystrom.

Rules

1. Explain your reasoning

All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.

2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.

This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in Risa.

3. Be diplomatic.

Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make Star Trek. Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.

4. Assume good faith.

Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”

5. Tag spoilers.

Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.

6. Stay on-topic.

Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.

Episode Guides

The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
24
Was the Federation right to grandfather in Earth's laws against genetic modification? (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
9 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

One of the recent laws in Trek that gets looked at a bit, is the genetic engineering ban within the Federation. It appears to have been passed as a direct result of Earth's Eugenics Wars, to prevent a repeat, and seems to have been grandfathered into Federation law, owing to the hand Earth had in its creation.

But we also see that doing so came with major downsides. The pre-24th century version of the law applied a complete ban on any genetic modification of any kind, and a good faith attempt to keep to that resulted in the complete extinction of the Illyrians.

In Enterprise, Phlox specifically attributes the whole issue with the Eugenics Wars to humans going overboard with the idea of genetic engineering, as they are wont to do, trying to improve/perfect the human species, rather than using it for the more sensible goal of eliminating/curing genetic diseases.

Strange New Worlds raises the question of whether it was right for Earth to enshrine their own disasters with genetic engineering in Federation law like that, particularly given that a fair few aliens didn't have a problematic history with genetic engineering, and some, like the Illyrians, and the Denobulans, used it rather liberally, to no ill-effects.

At the same time, people being augmented with vast powers in Trek seems to inevitably go poorly. Gary Mitchell, Khan Noonien-Singh, and Charlie X all became megalomaniacs because of the vast amount of power that they were able to access, although both Gary and Charlie received their powers through external intervention, and it is unclear whether Khan was the exception to the rule, having been born with that power, and knowing how to use it properly. Similarly, the Klingon attempt at replicating the human augment programme was infamous, resulting in the loss of their famous forehead ridges, and threatening the species with extinction.

Was the Federation right to implement Earth's ban on genetic engineering, or is it an issue that seems mostly human/earth-centric, and them impressing the results of their mistakes on the Federation itself?

all 11 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's just eugenics.
Hot take: the philosophy behind eugenics isn't bad.
Real life take: it's impossible to implement without increasing inequality

So yes, I think the federation was right to do that. One of the things they show is that all these cultures are different, but the individual is largely the same. Humans aren't much different from Vulcans, Klingons or ferengi.

But that's also why this is good sci-fi. Because it's supposed to make us think about issues that aren't black and white.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'd disagree on it being inherently eugenics, since genetic engineering isn't usually on the population level, and we've seen that attempts to do so, with both the Klingons, and the Illyrians, tended to be quite disastrous. We've seen that there are multiple civilisations that do implement genetic engineering without any issues. The Denobulans, for example, made use of it, as did the Illyrians. It was only the Illyrian attempt at undoing all of their genetic engineering that was disastrous, but their individual uses did not seem to cause problems.

We also know that in the 24th century, the Federation does do it to some degree, allowing modification to fix genetic diseases, but also at odds with the 23rd century's total ban on all genetic engineering.

So yes, I think the federation was right to do that.

At the same time, the Federation itself didn't have much of a history when it came to that either. There was Earth's disastrous attempt, but they seem to have been the only ones who did have a eugenics war over it. Other than Earth history, there doesn't seem to have been as much of a driver for the Federation to include that into its laws so early on.

It seems equally reasonable that Earth could keep their specific ban on genetic engineering, but not apply to that to the rest of the Federation, in much the same way that members planets are able to apply their own laws on their own planets, as long as they don't contravene Federation law.

But that’s also why this is good sci-fi. Because it’s supposed to make us think about issues that aren’t black and white.

That is also true, especially since that grey area lends itself to discussion.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

It's definitely one of those things that always seemed kinda weird for such an advanced society, like we right now haven't even actually banned nuclear fission or even atom bombs, it's just vaguely stigmatized and regulated.

And atom bombs aren't part of bodily autonomy..

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

What did the other founding species think of genetic manipulation? Humanity had a good reason to ban it, but there were three other species who could have protested this but didn't. It also isn't like they didn't have any clout; Vulcans were able to enshrine the Prime Directive into Federation law.

I get the feeling that the three other founding species didn't care enough about genetic manipulation to care about the blanket ban.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Is the ban on genetic modification a Federation thing, or is it just a Starfleet thing? They may not be the same thing.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Federation. Bashir's parents would not have had to sneak around, and have him augmented by a back-alley geneticist if it was allowed.

In Strange New Worlds, we're informed that the Illyrians sought to remove their genetic modifications as a gesture of goodwill towards the Federation, inadvertently wiping themselves out in the process. If it was legal within the Federation, the Illyrians would not have tried.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Think I remember hearing that some Ilyrians chose to undo their modifications in order to be able to integrate with the Federation.

And that when a planet with modified Ilyrians joined the Federation, those, who were augmented became second class citizens who were look down upon, so my bet is on a full on Federation ban.