this post was submitted on 02 Apr 2025
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[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Heaven was literally [re]invented to be a description of utopia specifically so that toiling workers wouldn't get distracted trying to create it on Earth.

"oooh heaven is a place on earth" take that shit literally, fam

[–] [email protected] 3 points 21 hours ago

Pie in the sky By and by

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Well, something that the Mormons have is they tried out communism. They called it the law of consecration. They had some fun times with trying to handle being productive and redistribution and poligamous. They ultimately concluded that they weren't ready for it yet so they went back to default capitalism with tithing and poor/fast offerings.

Tl;dr: Mormons believe in a kind of communism in heaven, and they go hungry for 2 meals (24 hrs) to remember to give generously to the poor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_consecration?wprov=sfla1

[–] [email protected] 5 points 21 hours ago

‘They’ didn’t decide they weren’t ready. It was used to fleece the pathetic true believers for a short period until the inner circle felt sufficiently capitalized.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That's because there are no brown people in their version of heaven.

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[–] [email protected] 53 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children)

The thing to understand about Christianity is that it was originally a reaction against the Roman empire and then got co-opted and integrated into it. As a result, ever since like the 4th century Christianity has been about basically the opposite of what Jesus talked about. It turns out all that stuff about turning the other cheek stops being relevant if the emperor has his soldiers paint crosses on their shields while they're out conquering and enslaving the Gauls. Of course, you can keep all the mythological stuff, who cares, but anything relevant to politics or the material world mysteriously seemed to reverse once they entered the halls of power.

The carrot of being accepted into the empire was matched with the stick that if you didn't go along with the imperial-approved form of Christianity you'd be burned at the stake as a heretic. Any sects still clinging to anti-imperial sentiment get hunted down and exterminated just like when they were being fed to lions, but it's the Christians doing it to each other now, so you don't even have to get your own hands dirty. This approach worked way better at suppressing dissent than just trying to ban Christianity altogether.

Of course, a lot has changed over the centuries. And originally it wasn't perfect or anything either. But imo, it was when Rome Christianized that Christianity Romanized, and ever since its real values have had more to do with Rome than with Jesus. The meme's, "moneyless, classless, stateless" ideal of heaven is a relic of the original teachings that gets shunted off to the purely mythological side, where it not only doesn't matter, but also occupies a place in their brain that could have otherwise been sympathetic to making good things happen in the material world. That's already resolved, there's no need to worry about it, there'll be pie in sky when you die.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 15 hours ago

This is why christian fascism should not be the least bit surprising.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 day ago

Oh it makes sense now, recuperation is not a capitalist concept, it is an imperialist concept!

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

That only works when there's no scarcity. Then its up to communists/capitalists/anarchists/dictators how to slice the cake

[–] [email protected] 1 points 17 hours ago

Yeah, pretty massive fundamental difference, lol.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago (3 children)

I don't think communism is a moneyless system. Pretty sure people paid money for things in the USSR. Have there been any communist countries without money?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

To understand this you need to understand the theory. Marx outlined that socialism and communism each had to be transitioned to after reaching a given level of social/economic development. In particular there is the notion of "withering away of the state" which would happen after a global revolution, which is the aim of this classless/moniless society they outlined.

The communist manifesto is a short read!

In fact the USSR implemented explicit market policies, a sort of contained capitalism, which was designed to facilitate reaching the necessary preconditions for socialism and communism. Essentially all of the "communist" states we've seen so far have been some play on the notion of just "socialism in one country" in the Marxist-Leninist version of communist parties, who have/had the goal of eventually reaching communism.

What's probably most interesting is that the idea behind the USSR wasn't initially to have the state direct everything from the top, but in fact to facilitate worker councils (soviets) to direct their workplaces.

But you have to remember this all happened in the context of a state which had recently undergone a revolution, was rife with counterrevolutonary action (see revolutionary France and civil war Britain to see how this played out during the birth of liberalism) and was then plunged into WW2 where most states involved were acting fairly dictatorially for the duration of it. Followed shortly by the US making it an explicit goal to prevent world communism through e.g. CIA intervention because they feared "domino theory"

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

Yes, which is why the USSR never once in its history claimed to have built communism. The best they claimed was "developed socialism" with promises to build Communism someday

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

Communism is a post-Socialist society, it must be global, highly developed, and have full public ownership, or close enough to those. The Soviet Union was, instead, Socialist, ie an economy where public ownership is the principle aspect. That being said, there were attempts at Cybernetics, and moving beyond money. These are actually incredibly interesting, and anyone interested in Socialism should look into those attempts.

If you want to learn more about Socialism and Communism, I recommend checking out my introductory Marxist-Leninist reading list.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago (4 children)

Oh shit, I need to watch that! Thanks, comrade!

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