this post was submitted on 29 Jan 2024
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I've used a US-QWERTY keyboard layout my entire life. I've seen other layouts that do things like reduce the size of the enter/backspace keys, move the pipe operator (|) and can't wrap my head around how I would code on those.

What are your experiences? Are there any layouts that you prefer for coding over US English? Are there any symbols that you have a hard time reaching ($ for example)?

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I use a 42 key layout modified from bépo (french dvorak inspired layout) with the altgr layer of ergol. Go check this altgr layer it's awesome for programming, and there is a version compatible for qwerty and lafayette.

╭╌╌╌╌╌┰─────┬─────┬─────┬─────┬─────┰─────┬─────┬─────┬─────┬─────┰╌╌╌╌╌┬╌╌╌╌╌╮
┆     ┃   ¹ │   ² │   ³ │   ⁴ │   ⁵ ┃   ⁶ │   ⁷ │   ⁸ │   ⁹ │   ⁰ ┃     ┆     ┆
┆     ┃   ₁ │   ₂ │   ₃ │   ₄ │   ₅ ┃   ₆ │   ₇ │   ₈ │   ₉ │   ₀ ┃     ┆     ┆
╰╌╌╌╌╌╂─────┼─────┼─────┼─────┼─────╂─────┼─────┼─────┼─────┼─────╂╌╌╌╌╌┼╌╌╌╌╌┤
·     ┃     │   ≤ │   ≥ │  *¤ │   ‰ ┃  *^ │     │   × │  *´ │  *` ┃     ┆     ┆
·     ┃   @ │   < │   > │   $ │   % ┃   ^ │   & │   * │   ' │   ` ┃     ┆     ┆
·     ┠─────┼─────┼─────┼─────┼─────╂─────┼─────┼─────┼─────┼─────╂╌╌╌╌╌┼╌╌╌╌╌┤
·     ┃     │   ⁽ │   ⁾ │     │   ≠ ┃  */ │   ± │   — │   ÷ │  *¨ ┃     ┆     ┆
·     ┃   { │   ( │   ) │   } │   = ┃   \ │   + │   - │   / │   " ┃     ┆     ┆
╭╌╌╌╌╌╂─────┼─────┼─────┼─────┼─────╂─────┼─────┼─────┼─────┼─────╂╌╌╌╌╌┴╌╌╌╌╌╯
┆     ┃  *~ │     │     │   – │     ┃   ¦ │   ¬ │  *¸ │     │     ┃           ·
┆     ┃   ~ │   [ │   ] │   _ │   # ┃   | │   ! │   ; │   : │   ? ┃           ·
╰╌╌╌╌╌┸─────┴─────┴─────┴─────┴─────┸─────┴─────┴─────┴─────┴─────┚ · · · · · ·
[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

Being Norwegian i code on the Norwegian keyboard layout. I get confused every time I get defaulted into English.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Does Dvorak count? I switched over when I made an egrodox style keyboard which in itself made typing generally more comfortable.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (4 children)

I use the FR-AZERTY layout. You honestly get used to the layout you have to work with.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I just use the Swiss keyboard layout. Here's an image from Wikipedia.

Don't have any experience with any others.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

I'm italian and I'm absolutely ashamed to say that I use an italian ISO keyboard for programming. It's missing some symbols like the backtick but I can't get used to US ANSI so I just configured some macros to type the missing characters.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I've used AT QWERTZ ever since I was born.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

DVORAK all the way, baby. Hardware-based via Unicomp 104.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

Dvorak gang here. Never going back to QWERTY.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

I used to use ANSI, but then moved to England and bought a laptop and returned it because of the “weird” ISO keyboard, then forever bought dell because I could customise it.

Moved back to ANSIland, but will still probably just buy dell.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

You can adapt to a new layout pretty easily. I already did it twice due to moving to new country.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

I use a plain 34 keys layout based on qwerty for letters, comma/dot/semicolon. The numpad and symbols layers are handcrafted so that every symbol is easy to reach, it's also optimize to type things like <- and -> easily

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

I began programming java climate model with UK keyboard. When I moved to the continent, switched to swiss then belgian keyboard to better type emails/docs in french, but it was so tedious for code brackets {[()]} and some other punctuation, eventually switched back. Recently converted whole codebase to Scala 3 (here's the model), now can drop most of those brackets. I speculate whether one motivation for creating scala3 (made in in Lausanne) was swiss/french keyboards.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (2 children)
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[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

French keyboard azerty has easier accents, cant live without em now.

Used to have a qwerty so sometimes the muscle memory derps a little, but when I accidently change the layout Im always mildly impressed that I can remember which key is which.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I use the German Layout Neo which has especially nice layers for programming https://neo-layout.org/

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

I use Canadian Multilingual on a ISO-style keyboard, mostly because my main language is French and typing accents on a US keyboard is horrible.

Coding makes a hefty use of Alt ("option" on mac), but they're relatively well-placed (see the labels on the bottom-right of the keys in the pic)

My main annoyance with it is that the ANSI-style keyboard puts "ù" to the left of "1", instead of the "/" you get on that key on a ISO keyboard (where ù is between the left shift and z). You can see how annoying this would be when programming or using the command-line. And of course, Apple stores only stock MacBooks with ANSI keyboards...

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

I do! ISO-ES the only real annoyance is that / is locked behind Ctrl+7 instead of next to the spacebar. My laptop is also in ANSI despite me using ISO so I'm missing a couple of keys

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

use Vista speech recognition} fantastic

no

no

no

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Yes, I've been on Norwegian Dvorak since 2002 or so.

Biggest problem I've had is with keyboards and OS'es (cough 🍎) that don't support the Insert key, because (a) I cut my teeth on the DOS editor and (b) XCV are all over the place on this layout.

I will always use a proper full size keyboard if at all possible. Those 60% and whatnot are not for me (it's bad enough when they move the arrow keys).

Oh, and the languages insisting on ${} characters are a pain on any non US layout.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

My laptop has an italian layout keyboard because it was a pain to find a good priced one with the US layout. On windows there's no way to do the ` and ~ symbols without using Alt combinations and on linux you need to use a weird compose key. Also square brackets require you to press Shift and curly brackets require both Shift and Alt.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

I pretty much grew up on Ubuntu's default polish layout - a modified version of the polish programmer's keyboard , which itself is a modified version of ANSI

(the preview is slightly broken , but oh well)

I cannot begin to stress how used I am t o having an extra key layer accessible by just pressing alt . Note that the current version I have has some dead keys as well on the third and fourth layer .

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

They wouldn't be using them if they didn't think they were superior. Even if it is just because they are used to them.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

I use UK standard layout, and Apple UK for work. It always takes me a few minutes to switch between them, but both are absolutely fine for programming. Just the odd placement of # that bothers me a little, but I tend to use that only for Python comments - which I tend to do more commonly from a keyboard shortcut anyway.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

As a German I have to admit that the ANSI US layout is the one American standard that's superior to the European ones. That said, I still need some Umlaute and accented letters from time to time, which is why I use the EurKEY layout, which adds all of those keys back and many morek, most of them accessible without having to use a dead key.

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