this post was submitted on 25 Jan 2024

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Chinese music student convicted in US of threatening pro-democracy activist (www.reuters.com)

submitted 9 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

18 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Cross-posted from: https://feddit.de/post/8243678

A Chinese music student was convicted on Thursday of U.S. charges that he harassed an activist who posted fliers at the Berklee College of Music in Boston supporting democracy in China and threatened to report her activities to Chinese law enforcement. A federal jury in Boston found Xiaolei Wu, 25, who sent the activist online messages saying he would chop off her hands and demanding she tear down her "reactionary posters," guilty at the end of a four-day trial.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 9 months ago (3 children)

No comments here, I guess nobody is suprized about behaviour like this anymore.

But it's very good to see that they get convicted.

[+] [email protected] 20 points 9 months ago (1 children)

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 9 months ago (1 children)

This has nothing to do with "free speech" and people need to stop misusing that concept. Free speech only protects you from the government impairing your speech, not other people or even businesses.

For example, If a mall decided to say "you're not allowed to say bad things about China on our property" they could eject you from their property if you did say something bad about China. You don't have the right to free speech on their property. Just like websites can ban you from saying specific things on their sites as well.

This is about threatening other people, you're not allowed to do that for any reason, speech or otherwise. That's why this asshat's conviction is for cyberstalking and threat charges.

[+] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

You're wrong. This has absolutely nothing to do with 1a. The legal right to free speech has nothing to do with other individuals, or other governments.

[+] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

They aren't exercising their right to free speech unless the US government would like them not to say it but is restricted from preventing them.

If the government doesn't care, it's just called talking.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (3 children)

If I have a gun but the government doesn't care, am I not exercising my 2a rights?

The government can't restrict your right to free speech until you exercise it. They didn't, which is why this isn't a 1a case, but that doesn't mean they weren't exercising their rights.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

If I have a gun but the government doesn’t care, am I not exercising my 2a rights?

No, you are not.

You have a right to not be unduly burdened by the government in owning or procuring a gun.

It does not follow that because the government is not allowed to arbitrarily restrict your ability to own a gun, you therefor have a “right to own a gun”. For example, if you do not own a gun, and everyone who does own a gun doesn’t want to give/sell you a gun, your 2a rights were not violated.

….....................................

Putting up a lost cat flyer, and having some random person yell at you for it is not exercising the “right to free speech” (for either party).

You have a right to not be unduly burdened by the government in speech/expression.

It does not follow that because the government is not allowed to arbitrarily restrict your speech/expression, you therefor have a right to speech/expression in all contexts. For example, if you want to go on a rant about your personal beliefs, the government unduly burdened you. However this will not stop the owner of the grocery store from calling the cops to have you trespassed for bothering all of the customers.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

First, my right and my ability to exercise it are two different things. My being too poor also doesn't impinge on my right to own a gun, but it certainly affects my ability to do so. Moreover, you are focusing on the example and not the law itself. I can as easily exercise my right to bear arms by finding a big stick or a suitable rock. Further, exercising my right doesn't require the government to restrict it in order for it to exist. And, of course, violation of my rights would generally require the government to be involved.

As far as speech is concerned, yes, I'm exercising my right to free speech if I say anything in a public space, including asking you if you've seen my lost cat. It likely wasn't going to be infringed in that particular example. This still doesn't allow me to go on private property and ask people about my cat.

Rights don't have to be at threat to be rights. A right is "something that one may properly claim as due." Note that there is nothing there which requires it to be threatened.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

The fact of owning a gun isn't a 2nd amendment issue as your comment would imply... The government coming to take that gun in some way? Second amendment issue. Government tries to impede your purchase of that gun? 2nd amendment issue.

Whether or not the Chinese student didn't like what she was saying has nothing to do with it being about or not being about freedom of speech.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

So you're proposing that bearing arms, the right guaranteed by the second amendment is not exercising of said right unless the government tries to stop you? So rights are like Schrodinger's laws, where they only exist when we try to violate them?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Correct, if the government would have let you have and use the gun anyway, you are not exercising your 2a right.

Exercise requires pushing limits. You aren't exercising by lifting your spoon to your mouth.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

One of the definition of exercise is "the active use or application of something." How is carrying a weapon not an application of second amendment rights? How is putting posters in a public space not an application of first amendment rights?

This is an example of the no true Scotsman fallacy.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

Not every thing covered by a right is exercising that right, Intention and circumstances matter.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Not to minimize the role that China's educational indoctrination plays in this (because that is the underlying cause of the student feeling the need to defend China's reputation with threats), but I've heard gamers threaten the same kind of bodily harm in League matches.

I think it's tough to place the blame for this entirely on China, when he's living in a society (our's/ the US's) that also teaches violence against women as a tool to silence them.

Sure, China made him feel the need to counter criticism of China with threats (just as the Chinese government does), but did China alone make him feel empowered to make those threats ones of bodily harm towards a woman? Much harder to say.

This could just as easily have been a story about an American guy defending Trump by telling a woman he'd hurt her.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

There is one difference though, will China punish him for doing so? I don't think so, will the US? Yes, they indeed are.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

In either China or the US it will depend on many factors.

Many cases will go un-prosecuted if there is no media attention. In China, negative public opinion is even more likely to result in a charge and conviction than in the US, due to how their judicial system works.

Ahmaud Arbery was run down and shot in the middle of the street, in public view, and it took 3 months of the video of the murder being posted online before any of the 3 men who murdered him were charged with a crime. Local police and the local DA's office had completely ignored the case, until media picked it up and started investigating, and that only happened because there was video.

Or the 215 bodies buried behind a prison in Mississippi, who no one ever was informed about, and whose causes of death (many while in police custody) will probably never be fully known.

I'd be interested to see statistics about whether a person of color in the US is treated more or less harshly than a Han (ethnic majority) Chinese person is in China; I'd wager that in terms of outcomes like sentencing, people of color in the US probably get a generally worse shake than Han Chinese people in China do, and white people a generally better shake.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Yea it seems pretty par for the course. As much as I really don't like the US's prison system, I personally think this kinda shit needs to see harsh punishments. Supporters of places like China and Russia need to know that this shit will not fly and that at least while they're here, they need to suck it the fuck up

[–] [email protected] 17 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

This outcome is welcome progress, but I get the sense that it's only a drop in the bucket.

Bullying and intimidating people in other countries who openly contradict the CCP's narrative seems widespread these days. From the news reports of unofficial Chinese "police stations" in North America, to youtube footage of US students speaking in support of an independent Hong Kong while Chinese students aggressively maneuver within inches of their faces while shouting threats, to the story in this post.

I hope this is a sign that we are finally taking action to stop it.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 9 months ago

Addition: the CCP is actively hiring Chinese people all over the world to control and dissent as Safeguard Defenders says in a report

The consolidation of overseas United Front networks as the providers of services such as consular community assistance may not only give them potential broad access to individuals’ private data, home addresses, and contact information but may also dangerously enhance their function of control over overseas communities and dissenters.