this post was submitted on 18 Jan 2025
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Vincent Oriedo, a biotechnology scientist, had just such a question. What lessons have been learned, he asked, from Harris’s defeat in this vital swing county in a crucial battleground state that voted for Joe Biden four years ago, and how are the Democrats applying them?

“They did not answer the question,” he said.

“It tells me that they haven’t learned the lessons and they have their inner state of denial. I’ve been paying careful attention to the influencers within the Democratic party. Their discussions have centred around, ‘If only we messaged better, if only we had a better candidate, if only we did all these superficial things.’ There is really a lack of understanding that they are losing their base, losing constituencies they are taking for granted.”

“We have set ourselves up for generational loss because we keep promoting from within leaders that that do not criticise the moneyed interests. They refuse to take a hard look at what Americans actually believe and meet those needs.”

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 days ago (2 children)

The Democrat aristocracy do not care about winning.

They only care about marketing the disaster of their losses so that they can launder billions of dollars in "vote blue" spam campaigns.

All those donations are going somewhere - to "consultancy firms". To "ad agencies". And then they get to enjoy kickbacks from this mutual relationship.

THEY DON'T NEED TO WIN TO RAKE IN BILLIONS.

and so they don't even try.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago

This right here. Ask yourself which stocks do both republicans and democrats own.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago
[–] [email protected] 51 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (12 children)

Honestly I think this article is completely wrong. I'm convinced modern elections are 100% based on vibes and so better messaging and a better candidate would have meant a great deal.

But to add to that - Trump and his idiot base had been messaging and memeing for four years starting with Covid and masks and then inflation and 'I did that' stickers of Biden at the gas pump. Biden had barely done any messaging even up until the point he dropped out which, in the social media era, should be obviously big fucking warning signs of a losing campaign.

EDIT - which is not to say I don't think the Dems need to change in other ways because they absolutely do.

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (25 children)

“The things Harris said, like she was going to give $25,000 for people to buy their first home, there were a lot of people said she was giving their money away to people who didn’t deserve it. It cost her votes. We were trying to tell her that.”

What's the answer to that? On the face of it, this says that the electorate don't want public money spent on helping other people who need help. How do you achieve anything other than conservatism with such an electorate? The only thing I can think is that you have to promise to help more of the electorate, and that the money will be come from the very rich. In other words, the only counter to conservatism is a commitment to actual wealth redistribution, and to going up against the selfish interests of the super-rich. That's not yet even socialism, but it's still further to the left that the Democratic Party is willing to go. For now, its leadership would rather lose elections to fascists than challenge billionaires.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 days ago

A few conservative pundits attacked it from the "undeserving" angle. The actual base didn't give a damn. The actual base thought it was a useless and tone-deaf figleaf of a policy. It was a wonkish policy only a milquetoast centrist could love - a market subsidy that had a long litany of provisos and qualifications. And one that economists stated would just serve to bid house prices up even higher.

The voters didn't reject progressive wealth redistribution. They rejected half-baked meaningless gestures.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (4 children)

Dems will keep losing until they figure out which demographics they can't afford to betray.

They thought LGBT and women would buy the last election and betrayed Unions, Nortenios, and Muslims. Like it wouldn't have a consequence, then they lost the southwest (Nortenio) and midwest (Union and Muslim).

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (3 children)

Well, I'm not in denial. This country is full of fucking idiots. The next Democratic presidential candidate should be a celebrity that promises to achieve world peace and full gay space communism. Apparently empty promises and celebrity are what win elections.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 3 days ago (6 children)

I think you may have missed the point a bit. It's exactly these 'empty promises' which have been the democrats issue over the past 30 years.

They get elected on messages like 'make the economy work work everyday americans' and then once in office they prioritize the status quo and making sure that nothing major changes. This benefits the wealth and damages everyday people, many of whom voted for them in the hopes that the democrats would improve their situation.

As awful as much of their platform is, the Republicans have proven that they aren't scared to break things and make big changes. This appeals to many voters who feel let down by empty promises.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (5 children)

I don't know what all these comments are about he said it perfectly.

They refuse to take a hard look at what Americans actually believe and meet those needs

And they won't. Which is why they are a sunk cost. Ameicans will keep investing in it because it's, "the only othe choice" and the party will lose again and again.

2016 was 8 years ago people and the DNC has not evolved in the least.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (4 children)

The only lesson to be learnt from this is that forgiving debts, pardoning marijuana offences, wanting fair elections, etc don't work.

The only lesson they could learn from this is that they weren't conservative enough.

Fuck that lesson.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

The only lesson they could learn from this is that they weren’t conservative enough.

I don't think this is even remotely the lesson.

The right wingers already go on social media spouting that "the libs" are socialist, sure, but that's just because it's what their media tells them.

The lesson should be that propaganda wins elections, not logical answers. You have to appeal to quick witty replies with even more quick witty replies. You have to use loads of smoke and mirrors to promise outcomes without any tangible methodologies.

The democrats should promise to fund the military... and then use the military funding for humanitarian ends like we did with covid vaccines. The line item looks great to dummy middle america voters to say "wow the democrats want a strong military" even though the spending really is to build homes for the poor or provide subsidized healthcare through federal military pop up hospitals (with contracted civilian doctors.)

You have to literally provide handouts about a year out from election time to subsidize a topic like gas prices leading up to the election. The day the elections are over you can remove all of those things and start replenishing it... so release that strategic reserve big time. Focus on extra subsidies in places where you can actually win the vote, so fuck deep red and deep blue. Hate to say it... the battleground is all that matters.

If you want to appeal to the common voter it can't be by pushing for educational values or refunds for people with degrees. It has to be refunds for people with high grocery bills, high utility costs. Hell, remove the SALT deduction entirely in the name of "small government" because that's one thing even lower class republicans think would be a bad move to raise... but this is still way too detailed for the ignorant voting masses to grasp... so you should probably say you are going to lower taxes rather than say you're upping it for billionaires. The latter is always assumed even though it never actually happens.

Bring out all the news about how republicans are actually raising taxes. How they actually result in higher gas costs, higher housing costs, higher grocery costs. Why the fuck "Tariffs" weren't brought out as MASSIVE tax increases for the common working person is bewildering to me! Dumpy loves tariffs but describe it in simple terms as a tax - IMPORT TAX - and suddenly it will be very unpopular. "Dumpy says tariffs are good!!!!" but the news is plastered with "import taxes called tariffs"... why are they raising taxes again? for common hard working people? "You mean i'm gonna have to pay more money at the grocery store AND the pump??!?!?!?"

Campaigning on city values isn't working because the battleground states aren't uber dense. You have to appeal to the rural people with promises that can be delivered in the short term and that will cost them in the long term, because they are HORRIBLE at gauging long term impact. They can only remember what just happened and what is happening now. Dumpy is promising that the future will be great, why are you promising that things are gonna be tough? Things are tough right now for most people, why are you saying that the economy is great? I know by many metrics we are succeeding but the complexity of economics goes over almost everyone's head. Instead you should have been campaigning on the fact that dumpy lowered taxes on the rich and that the rich didn't fulfill their end of the bargain and are stealing all the money from the hard working middle americans.

No die hard blue state is going to vote red so it's time to abandon intelligent values for dummy propaganda. Let's fucking go.

Oh and on the sidelines talk about the real policy you want to implement akin to project2025 which actually has the real DNC agenda, just like how P2025 is the GOP agenda.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 days ago (14 children)

They don't learn the lesson, because they don't want to. And your examples imo show the problem.

forgiving debts, pardoning marinuana offences

These are not solutions, they are bandaids that like a drug keep you dependent on politicians repeating them again and again. Which of course is nice when your only goal is to get relected, but longterm that magic wears off.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago

Also, Biden's management of debt forgiveness was a sequence of half-measures that gave the impression of having been hastily improvised. It wasn't a single policy implementation, presented as such. It came across as tinkering and fine-tuning, doing the minimum to get by, like many other Biden policies. It seems to me that he was more interested in not rocking the boat than delivering anything of real value to the American people.

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