this post was submitted on 17 Nov 2024

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What's Mastodon precious? (lemmy.dbzer0.com)

submitted 14 hours ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

Mastodon is gatekept to hell and back, the technicalities of federation are exposed to the user for some reason (you already lose half your potential user base right there), infighting between instances means that you won't see the entire discourse of a post depending on which instance you're at...

And besides all that, bsky is not as "corpo" as mastodon fanboys make it out to be. They're on track to open up to privately hosted instances as well, and you can already run most of their backend stuff yourself.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 14 minutes ago

As much as I like the 'decentralized' stuff, the technical part of federation should NEVER be exposed to the end user if you want the platform to be mainstream. I still don't understand why a lot of federated projects think it's a good idea to expose that to the end user.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

I think a lot of the attitude I saw on mastodon about this like a year ago was one of suspicion that they wanted an open network but didn't use the fediverse standard

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 hours ago

I assume the main reason is that ActivityPub is a mess and quite overcomplicated for bsky's needs. Being permanently tied to it seems like a big risk. There's no reason why they couldn't make a compatibility layer later and hook into it.

[–] [email protected] 50 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (7 children)

"Write a bit about yourself to join this server and if we decide you're too boring and normal we'll reject your application and say you're a spammer afterwards"

Hmm I wonder why normies aren't flocking to these fediverse platforms, what could be stopping them, couldn't be the shitty onboarding process could it? Nah asking people to apply is the best onboarding process ever (obvious big ass /s)

[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Many Lemmy instances are requiring their users to apply for an account.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

And that makes it better how?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 hours ago

It doesn't that was the point of my comment, it is sarcastic, because asking normies to write about themselves then manually determine their worth before they join will exclude the vast majority of them. Applications are how you run exclusive clubs, not a social media platform. Which is the biggest reason the Fediverse sucks for regular people.

I don't want to join a club, I want to join a regular platform. That's why I joined discuss.online and not any of the other exclusive club instances.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 hours ago

It lowers the barrier of entry which may deter some people who just want to check out the space first.

Granted, it also makes it more accessible to scammers, so give and take really.

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[–] [email protected] 56 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (6 children)

If Mastodon wanted to be preferred, it should have been better. I moved to Mastodon over a year ago when the Twitter sale first happened. It was not great then and it’s gotten slightly worse since. I created a Bluesky account two days ago and it already offers exactly the experience I missed from Twitter before Elon.

Would it be better if Mastodon was good and the federated FOSS option was superior? Sure, absolutely. But, that scenario isn’t even close to the case we are presented with.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 7 hours ago

I’ve been a heavy Mastodon user for two years, and I honestly don’t see why so many people on Lemmy give it so much shit. Certainly not in favour of the likes of Bluesky.

I get WAY more engagement with my posts on there than I ever did on Twitter. And maybe I’m just at an age where I don’t give a shit about celebrity, but I couldn’t care less that all the Big Names have gone to Bluesky and Threads. It’s great not seeing the same people being shared into my TL all the time.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Can you give actual examples?

I feel the only thing that Mastodon 'misses' is some feed to get you addicted.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 hours ago

Seconded, some specific examples would be helpful.

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[–] [email protected] 185 points 12 hours ago (6 children)

I feel like you guys are addicted to letting perfect be the enemy of good. Yes, Bluesky being corporate run will probably be an issue down the line, but if it becomes mainstream then people will be used to seeing .APP.INSTANCE and feel more comfortable with the fediverse interface, which I know at least for me was a big hurdle. Like seriously, the fact that the next big thing is federated, even if in name only, is a big step forward.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 hours ago

Half a loaf is better than no loaf

[–] [email protected] 56 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Yeah I'm a huge believer in federated systems but I believe that a lot of 'normies' going to bluesky is a huge step in the right direction. Even though most don't know anything about the tech behind it and migrate because twitter has become a bot infested right wing hell scape, they still are one step closer to being fully integrated to the fediverse.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (2 children)

Bluesky's ActivityPub support is also leagues better than Threads because of Bridgy Fed. At least a Bluesky user and a Mastodon user can follow each other and have a back-and-forth conversation.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 hours ago

Yeah exactly! I've even used the bridge yesterday since I'm on Mastodon, and my girlfriend just migrated to bluesky after hearing about the exodus. The process is really easy and only takes a bit of time for some of the DMs to get sent, but otherwise I have no complaints!

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 hours ago

Expecting perfection is a huge problem in all aspects of life. People just want instant perfection and aren't willing to work towards it. Then there's just apathy and that leads to stagnation or worse regression.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 hours ago

I think the hate for BlueSky is proof that it's important enough to work. Buhbye elon

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

I don't understand what anyone uses twitter, bluesky or mastodon for anymore. I used twitter to follow companies (like CoffeeStain) or YouTubers/Artists.
Bluesky has some of that, meanwhile mastodon is just a circle pit of yelling and also the same stuff I see on Lemmy.
I don't understand what people use it for. There's no information to follow like company game accounts for games I play, and when I tried to do goofy shitposts like old twitter i got a grand total of 0 likes.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 hours ago

Sic cat pics

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 hours ago

bluesky is federated and decentralised too... i don't understand why people are having problems with it? maybe they just don't know?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

I just looove how ppl believe that switching from one VC-funded centralised corpo platform to another VC-funded (slitghly less) centralised corpo platform is a good thing /s

Just because it's (partially) OSS doesn't make it good. The corp still hold all the power and might sell out, but at least they got free volunteers to program for them so the C-level could get more money!

(Now don't tell me that Bluesky is "federated". They still hold all the power over site rules and moderation. The only little concession you get is that you are allowed to host your own data)

Apparently virtue signaling about pseudofederation is enough for libs to "get hope for the future of the internet" while they happily lick the boot of yet another centralized "trust me bro this isn't going to eshittify itself, not this time" corp

[–] [email protected] 57 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Jumping from one frying pan into the next.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 hours ago

lucky for us, we aren't running out of jumps.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 hours ago

Community owned centralized systems are the answer.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

After initially hesitating, I decided to join Bluesky after having previously tried Mastodon and permanently leaving Twitter. While I was initially reluctant because Jack Dorsey had sold Twitter to Elon Musk, I still created a Bluesky account. I later came across Jason Koebler's article on 404 Media, which validated my choice. His arguments aligned with my own reasons for preferring Bluesky over Mastodon. Link to the article: The Great Migration to Bluesky Gives Me Hope for the Future of the Internet.

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 14 hours ago (6 children)

Isn't Bluesky federated?

[–] [email protected] 76 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

Pseudo-federated from what people are saying. Something about the user accounts being centralised but the data being decentralised. I don't understand but it's something funded by the previous owner of Twitter and full of other corporate money, so I wouldn't trust it.

[–] [email protected] 54 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

there is a critical 'relay' component that only they control. so you can setup your own 'node', but only connected to their instance.

only a single instance of the relay exists and they are not releasing that code and a few other pieces. it federates only with itself.

[–] [email protected] 43 points 13 hours ago (3 children)

That pretty much sounds centralised. But I guess people don't care if they don't have to worry about "picking a server" which is "too complicated" 🤷

[–] [email protected] 27 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

i think the new paradigm of the distributed fediverse is going to take a long time to propagate to the masses. its going to be lots of platforms advertising their corner of the 'verse and the features they permit.. but we really need to get the idea of the 'fediverse' into their heads that its content accessible by any of those platforms.

the thing ive noticed is no one cares about 'sites' anymore.. the kids all want 'apps' which is drivin me bonkers. spent decades building mobile-friendly, dynamic viewports only for them to get ignored cuz kids dont want to type in a URL/domain.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 12 hours ago

My impression is that it hasn't been users that have pushed everything into apps, it's been publishers. This is all a part of a general trend where software has become much less about what it can do for the user, and much more about what data it can extract from a user for the publisher. Websites generally have a lot more protections against such data scraping, meanwhile you can put who knows what code into an app.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 hours ago

Jack Dorsey has nothing by to do with Bluesky and hasn’t for a while now.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

You can run your own relays, the obstacle is that each relay takes up many terabytes. But it's fully open.

https://github.com/bluesky-social/pds

https://whtwnd.com/bnewbold.net/entries/Notes%20on%20Running%20a%20Full-Network%20atproto%20Relay%20(July%202024)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42094369

https://docs.bsky.app/docs/advanced-guides/firehose

https://docs.bsky.app/docs/advanced-guides/federation-architecture#relay