There's a difference between being antisemitic and anti Israel! People seem to forget these days. Being antisemitic because Israel is being shit is extremely stupid
this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2023
1086 points (82.4% liked)
Memes
45189 readers
1423 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
It doesn't help that some actual anti semitic people are also using this as an excuse to chime in. Some protests about it in the UK right now.
Yeah unfortunately part of the work is making certain those kinds of people don't feel welcome in our movements.
People seem to forget these days.
It's not that they forget. You're giving them too much credit. The reality is that being against many of the actions of a country is normal. People like Americans, like American movies, but are against many of the actions taken by the US military, the NSA, etc. People like Indians, but are against the actions of the Modi government. If you advocate against the policies of other governments you can get results. Your country can scale down its cooperation with them, or pressure them, or whatever. There's always going to be some hatred of the country, hatred of the people of that country, hatred of the religion of the people of that country mixed in when the policies of any country are criticized. But, a reasonable person can focus on the main message.
By playing the "antisemitism" card, the Israelis who use it hope to insulate Israel from these normal kinds of criticisms. It's really the only country that gets to play that kind of card, because it's the only country founded in the immediate aftermath of a genocide, by the survivors of that genocide, and is the only place where Jews are a majority. They also get to pretend that any decision other than supporting Israel in everything it does is supporting the next genocide against Jews. The reality is that many of Israel's actions are likely to encourage the next attempted genocide against Jews.
Aren't Palestinians semitic?
Yes but humanity has agreed that the term "anti semitic" specifically means "anti jewish". Like how if you say "I could care less" everyone understands you meant "I couldnt care less".
That's also why it's spelled 'antisemitic' versus 'anti-Semitic', to avoid the idea that it means against Semitic people but against Jewish people specifically, replacing the earlier term "Judenhass" (Jew-hatred) in the late 1800s.
load more comments
(4 replies)
Just don’t engage with anyone who unfairly accuses you of “antisemitism”. Antisemitism is indeed a serious problem, but it doesn’t apply here. There is a huge difference between criticizing a government and criticizing a religion, but some people can’t/won’t accept that.
People who casually throw the word “antisemitism” around are usually too emotionally invested to have a real conversation, and/or they’re just trying to put you on the defensive. Never be afraid to abandon a conversation. You are not required to respond to anything someone says.
The peoblem is that at demonstrations against Israel there are a lot of people who confuse that. So there actually is a lot of antisemitism happening. Some people who are strongly antisemitic just take the whole conflict as an excuse. Ofc not the majority, but there are allways idiots.
Basically any movement against bad people who happen to be part of a minority seems to get hijacked by bigoted people eventually.
It just means we have to do a bit of extra labour to make sure our movements are not infiltrated by shitbirds. I was just at a protest this weekend, and was pleased by the handful of signs I saw specifically denouncing anti-semitism.
Yes, it sucks that we have to throw in what feels like a parenthetical, while people are bleeding out under tonnes of rubble, but y'know, I guess that's just where we're at as a species right now.
True. It happens in reverse, too. Sometimes people try to disguise hateful antisemitism as a valid political discussion.
Where do you come from all ?
Here in France, you even have the far right who is 100% racist and antisemitic , who start to be accepted by the average population, as defensor of the Jews and being seen as an wall to protect them...
Because here in France, they have made the movement against antisemitic a movement against Arabs and assimilated.
load more comments
(2 replies)
This whole thing has given antisemites plausible deniability to express their hateful views. It's impossible to tell who is anti-Israel because of antisemitism and who is anti-Israel for other reasons.
Not celebrating the war crimes is clearly anti-Semitism. Remember to pay your taxes so Israel can have more weapons
load more comments
(1 replies)
There is a huge difference between criticizing a government and criticizing a religion
Agreed, but I don't think it's religious bigotry; I think it's racial bigotry. Antisemitism is a form of racism. Do you think the Nazis gave atheist Jews a free pass?
It also turns out that people get angry when you point out that Palestinians are Semites.
Criticising Judaism doesn't make you an anti-semite. There's valid criticisms to be raised against most religions, this can be done without resorting to hostility or prejudice.
Some can't voice their views without putting their livelihoods on the line. We need protections for people to voice their opinions on Zionism without being labeled an anti-Semite.
load more comments
(2 replies)
The saddest part is that people then blame the Jews for the actions of the Zionists.
Calling who criticize israel anti semitic, is actually extremely anti semitic.
It's like calling people who criticize ISIS Islamophobes. Muslims don't even want to be associated with ISIS, so using Islam to shield ISIS from criticism would be a giant insult to all Muslims.
Yet the media insults Jews like this on a daily basis.
Funnily enough, both ISIS and the Zionist State are terrorist organizations funded by the United States.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/03/us-isis-syria-iraq
load more comments
(7 replies)
Antisemitic != Anti Zionist
Been banned on numerous subreddits for saying this.
Reddit is a huge circlejerk, there are no debates on the large subreddits. Funnily enough, they all hate the mainstream media, but somehow still hold the very same "brave" opinion that mainstream media outlets are pushing.
Over here I at least can say that billionaires deserve to get their heads cut off <3
IDK man, I'm just anti-war and anti-warmongering. Anyone who desires war or actively engages in it is kind of a bad person.
Nothing against soldiers, most of them are just trying to do their duty, usually oblivious to the real reasons behind their orders. They're just the fodder for someone's desire for conquest and power.
With all the amazing communication technology we have, so many still have so much difficulty actually communicating with others in a reasonable way. We're all humans, and the vast majority just want to live their lives. The minority want everyone different to become like them.
We have this technology but still only certain perspectives are allowed to be broadcast while others are ignored. I remember meeting people from Palestine when I was young, seeing how nice and chill they were and how they wished they could go back but it was too dangerous. I think it's rare for anyone in the US to have met anyone actually from Palestine or Israel. It's a lot more difficult to dehumanize someone you are friends with.
load more comments
(1 replies)
I'm a little bit drunk but I saw blue/white flag and kept wondering how this relates to Finland at all
I saw this and figured, "I'll show this bastard what evil Finland has done," and I found some pretty appalling things...apparently, they don't like small talk and can be emotionally reserved...and...and...its quite cold.
Monsters.
You must be very drunk to mistake the flag of Greece for the one of Finland.
Argentina who?
Bless you
load more comments
(2 replies)
view more: next ›