this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2023
104 points (73.9% liked)

World News

39385 readers
2533 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News [email protected]

Politics [email protected]

World Politics [email protected]


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 62 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (9 children)

To be clear, staging militant attacks from a hospital is a war crime.
To make matters worse, it opens up the likelihood and justification of counter-attacks against that hospital and the people in it.

According to international humanitarian law (IHL), health establishments and units, including hospitals, should not be attacked. This protection extends to the wounded and sick as well as to medical staff and means of transport. The rule has few exceptions.

Specific protection of medical establishments and units (including hospitals) is the general rule under IHL. Therefore, specific protection to which hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used by a party to the conflict to commit, outside their humanitarian functions, an "act harmful to the enemy".

Medical establishments and units enjoy protection because of their function of providing care for the wounded and sick. When they are used to interfere directly or indirectly in military operations, and thereby cause harm to the enemy, the rationale for their specific protection is removed. This would be the case for example if a hospital is used as a base from which to launch an attack; as an observation post to transmit information of military value; as a weapons depot; as a center for liaison with fighting troops; or as a shelter for able-bodied combatants.

Source: The International Committee of the Red Cross

Nobody should beat around the bush here. Hamas are using injured civilians as a human shield to stage attacks, and in doing so they are inviting retaliation and suffering under well-establish terms of international law. There's not really any particular gray area here. It's horrible, it's unethical, it's criminal, and it's just plain wrong.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (7 children)

This is the thing that pissed me off - the organization that has a humanitarian symbol so strong you can be legally held accountable for using it in a way that lessens its importance acknowledges that attacking a hospital being used as a military bases is a legal part of war. Meanwhile there are people whos education doesn't pass high-school screaming that this isn't legal, or its incorrect, or blaming the aggressor instead of those deliberately putting civilian lives at risk by blatantly ignoring intl rules of conflict.

If you want to throw in your argument against the red cross, spend your life and billions of dollars helping humanitarian issues world wide and then you might have some authority on the matter.

This is modern warfare. War is horrific, innocents get killed, people suffer. We put rules in place to lessen the effects on the innocent and those who circumvent those rules to try make the others look bad need to be removed in the quickest and most efficient way we can - as soon as one group gets away with ignoring the intl rules, everyone can.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (10 children)

I don't think any intellectually honest person that supports Palestine thinks Hamas are the "good guys", they are an evil created and grown directly and indirectly by Israel's actions.

load more comments (10 replies)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It doesn't give them the right to bomb the hospital point blank period, proportionality clauses kick in and it's arguably reason to ground assault it but they cannot ignore the civilian cost of life when they're are other ways to go about clearing the garrison.

Ed: Jesus Christ, 3 seconds on Google prior just can't seem to do.

The principle of proportionality prohibits attacks against military objectives which are “expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated”. In other words, the principle of proportionality seeks to limit damage caused by military operations by requiring that the effects of the means and methods of warfare used must not be disproportionate to the military advantage sought.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Unfortunately as soon as they garrisoned it it became a legitimate military target and yes, they literally now have a right to bomb it. Level it, no, you are right on a proportional response and that would still be a war crime, but bombing what is now a legitimate military target prior to any invasion (like any other military target) can absolutely be justified.

Hamas knows this, and are deliberately trying to put the global blame on Israel when THEY GARRISONED A FUCKING HOSPITAL.

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (5 replies)
load more comments (8 replies)
[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (25 children)

Has it seriously not occurred to zionists that there's a middle step between doing absolutely nothing and leveling the entire building? Send troops in there to liberate the hospital. A lot fewer innocents will die, and yea more IDF troops will die that way, but in what fucking universe is it preferable to murder civilians than to run a risky military operation? Even if Hamas kills a bunch of patients or doctors in retaliation there will surely be more survivors than if you just bomb the place. But nope, apparently Israeli lives are worth infinitely more than those of Palestinian civilians, so the best solution is to murder all Palestinians so they're not a "threat" to Israel

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

When your

best solution is to murder all Palestinians

...bombing hospitals, refugee camps, schools, and endless civilians is a good thing... and explains Israel's behaviour and rhetoric in a pretty straightforward way.

...of course, killing all those kids makes the question "why are Hamas bad" a bit awkward... I know! Saying it's bad to murder children is anti-semitic now - that's not an obvious, massive self-report!

I don't personally care to judge whether Israel or Hamas are worse - they're both monstrous, genocidal murderers, killing innocent civilians... But only one of them has the ability to actually deliver on their genocidal intentions, and they're making headway.

load more comments (24 replies)
[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago (4 children)

funny how when Palestine makes a claim, Lemmy just eats it all up.

but when Israel releases footage and coordinates to support their claims, everyone is suddenly questioning.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I guess it has to do with the enormous social media machine Israel has. I take both sides with a grain of salt tho

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] satan 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

People have hard time trusting a genocidal country with an incentive for its citizen to propagate its propaganda.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act.IL

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

but the forces bombing hospitals, escape routes, and journalists, they aren't terrorists??

[–] [email protected] 43 points 1 year ago (4 children)
[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Palestinians and isreali civilians are caught between two asshole organizations and as they say, when elephants fight, the ants suffer.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's tiring to see everyone taking sides. Just admit that both sides are wrong: Hamas are using civilians as cover, Israel is just killing everyone to get at Hamas. The people suffer. :-(

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept for so many people. Two sides can absolutely be in the wrong, especially over the span of generations. At such a point it really hardly matters anymore at all who started what, it's just two sides showing humanity's ugliest side non-stop.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

of course that's possible, I'm pointing out that the language used in the title of this post doesn't want you to see it that way

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (21 children)

Uh oh, guess that means there's no choice but to level the entire place and kill every civilian in there :(

load more comments (21 replies)
[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (9 children)

Not a good way to avoid having your hospitals bombed...

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (5 children)
load more comments (5 replies)
load more comments (8 replies)
[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well, that's misleading. The article acts as if they're doing it from the hospital. They're firing from the road. There's nothing given in the article indicating they had anything to do with the hospital.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In the footage the terrorist runs into the hospital's underground carpark

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

if anyone's interested in some further reading / contextual information on this article / conflict specifically (or conflict generally):

distinction & proportionality

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

At this point I need to ask: Are these all different hospitals being attacked or is everyone still reporting about 1 specific hospital that was attacked?

load more comments
view more: next ›