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Waiting for confirmation this actually happened because the article about the premature babies dying due to lack of power asked the doctors if Israel was willing to help to which they responded that "no, Israel isn't responding to our requests at all, so we don't know".
What in the fuck would 70 gallons of fuel do for a hospital? A few hours of power? Is that supposed to be a genuine attempt at aid? Less than $200 of fuel?
Interesting question.
Apparently an ICU bed requires ~200 W of power.
I don't know the type of fuel or generator, but I found an arbitrary model that can output 1800W, enough for 9 ICU beds. Four liters of gasoline provide 5400Wh, which means they lasts 3 hrs.
So I estimate 300 liters of gasoline could have powered 9 ICU beds for over nine days.
Oh cool, wonder how many ICU beds they have to power. I wonder what other equipment they need.
In any case that's a pittance. I could've provided more personally. A country-like entity could certainly do much better, like maybe just suppling power and not bombing their power infrastructure.
I don't know how many ICU beds they have to power, but Shifa Hospital has 30 ICU beds in all.
So if all the ICU beds are occupied, then 300 liters of gasoline would power them for two to three days.
The hospital needs 9000-10000 liters a day of fuel. Do you think there is a single power generator connected to the neonatal unit? How are they going to limit the consumption? It's not really that easy and I bet most of the electricians also left the hospital... Your napkin math is also not taking into account any power losses, etc.
Plus offering 300 liters is laughable. Seriously, your car's fuel tank is 60+ liters, so Israel offered them 5 car tanks worth of fuel. How generous and humane of them!
Someone asked what 300 L of fuel could do for a hospital, and I estimated an answer.
Nobody said it would be sufficient to power an entire hospital. It could power a full ICU, which is usually where the patients at greatest risk are found, for 2-3 days.
It doesn't matter how many power generators are used, the energy requirements are the same. The hospital is already using power generators, so electricians are irrelevant.
Tell me you are not an engineer without telling me.
Seriously, stop spreading this nonsense, as you have no idea how to calculate fuel consumption of a diesel generator. Have you heard of a parameter called power factor? Or electrical losses? Do you know how to operate a diesel generator or how to disconnect all other power consuming devices from the diesel generator?
Another food for thought for you is that this power generator is probably huge, and is not designed to consume very little fuel, meaning the power factor is low around his originally designed power output and the further away you are from it, the lower the power factor is, the greater the losses.
You said you have worked in a hospital, but answer me a question, how many times have you touched the diesel generator there or any part of the electrical system of the hospital and do you feel confident enough to do any changes on it? And be honest!
"How are they going to limit consumption" really? Turn off breakers, pull plugs, turn off switches, have an electrician measure, whack everyone who uses power for anything but the absolutely most life critical applications with a large stick...
I've worked in a hospital. During my time there we had a true blackout. Even the central power generator couldn't turn on, because the connection was chewed through my rats. No one did a check on it like they're supposed to every month...heads rolled for it.
Here to say, you can't just power ICU beds in isolation. The circuits for emergency power aren't just going to beds. They're open sockets on the wall, any one can plug anything in there. You can't just redo a circuit in the blink of an eye either. If their central generator died and they get a bunch of gas powered ones, they'll need a lot of time to figure out where they need to splice the wires in order to supply power but not overwhelm the generators.
It's safe to say they're probably going to use their large central generator. It's probably also safe to say they're going to power more than the ICU beds. Even if they turned off the heating and cooling, they're still going to use more than the figure you suggested. Some circuits aren't optional.
I am incredibly skeptical of this story, but holy shit this is one of the funniest things I have seen on this site.
Again, I am incredibly skeptical of this story. But I REALLY hope it is true. Mostly because it is a sign of any form of humanity in an inhumane genocide. But partly to see your next act of mental gymnastics. Like, fuck Cirque du Soleil, this is where it is at.
You're quite right, some people just cannot see past their biases.
And Hamas taking it for themselves is perfectly believable.
The math is COMPLETE bullshit. Their power estimates are a farce and off by probably a factor of 10... There are other things then just the bed...
off by probably a factor of 10
Citation needed.
What piece of ICU equipment do you think has a power draw over 1kW? That's more than a refrigerator....
There are other things then just the bed...
The link adds up the power for a ventilator, two monitors, and eight pumps.
What would you like to add?
I mean... you generally want refrigerators for a lot of medicine (and I assume blood?).
But I also assume those are already fucked from the past few weeks.
You aren't going to be running at full capacity without providing power to the entire grid which has obvious implications with a war. But keeping the essential equipment running to keep kids and the like alive? I am not convinced they would be able to help everyone, but it would go a long way and be something that can be delivered with minimal risk of attacks en route and storage issues.
I never said the fuel is enough help everyone in the hospital. Far from it.
It is enough to power a certain number of ICU beds, for a few days, that would otherwise not be operational. That's not much, but it's not nothing.
Where's the mental gymnastics? My initial point is that it's NOTHING in terms of aid.
And the numbers given are dubious presumptions that assume modern, well kept, thousand dollar generators with modern ICU beds and no other equipment or auxiliary usage. It's not useful or realistic.
Hey, you asked and they answered. It's probably a few days of fuel for absolutely mission critical applications, but it's definitely something.
So some anonymous person on the internet did a couple of web searches and some back of the napkin simple multiplication, and suddenly for you that becomes the last word on the subject?
There is a fuckload more in a hospital that needs power in addition to an ICU bed. We don’t know what generators they’re using, the fuel consumed per hour, and how far a minimum power draw can go. We do know that the hospitals are so far over capacity that patients are everyplace, as are people seeking shelter.
It is fuck all for a single hospital.
I don't know how hospital power systems are designed. maybe it's possible that you could only power infant icus. I doubt it. either the hospital has power or it doesn't. at least that's what I would expect. so it's not a matter of whether you're just powering icu's. also fuck israel.
Hospitals have lots of built-in safety and redundancy in their power systems, but ultimately most things draw power from an outlet just like at home.
And that means most ICU equipment could be plugged into a generator, if necessary. There are a few hospital-wide systems that might need to be replaced with portable units, like vacuum suction and oxygen lines.
Obviously that's not ideal in terms of reliability, but it's better than turning the life support off. In fact, it is pretty clear that hospitals in Gaza are using generators right now to power their equipment.
so.... is the offered fuel "enough"? like I said: I don't know much about electrical infrastructure. but I don't think you need to know anything about it to believe that hospitals shouldn't lose power for any patient, ICU babies or otherwise.
Enough for the hospital to function normally? I really, really doubt it.
Enough to save some lives, if not nearly all? I think so.
By the way, everything I said about ICUs was referring to adult ICUs, not neonatal. So I have no idea if the fuel is enough to help ICU babies.
Enough to prove viability for fuel delivery? Yes.
I wouldn't count on the hospitals in Gaza having "up to code" dedicated life safety circuits with emergency backup anyway, let alone the ability to have a flexible power distribution system at all. What a shit situation, it's so depressing.
BBC already checked - The hospitals head of surgery said this would be equal to half hour of generator power. Half. Hour.
A small hospital generator would burn that on about 3 hours. This is a dog and pony show.
That sounds like a reasonable amount to provide, since they can provide another shipment 2h later if it actually goes to the hospital. (At full power it'd be 30 minutes, but I assume critical loads only could be powered a lot longer).
The evidence provided is weak though, and it could easily be staged. We didn't get lucky by having Hamas publicly confirm that they indeed did it, but it'd be inline with their other statements that show utter disregard for Palestinian life.
Testing the waters before sending more is a good tactic
What if they send more and Hamas intercepted it as they did with this one?
And no one is even commenting on the elephant in the room. 300 liters of diesel!
Am I the only one who thinks this is a ridiculously low amount?
Not big surprise jpost and timesofisrael are the only ones reporting on this.
If you need any more evidence of media bias, here it is.
BBC confirms the head of surgery on the hospital already mentioned, this is enough for about half an hour of generator power.
this is a smart move for the first delivery. And the result is why !
It was delivered by Jerry can, by hand from troops in the area. They coordinated the drop with the hospital and apparently Hamas. Presumably if this worked they could have arranged for a more regular supply. But that's 2 barrels of fuel. You could run quite a bit off that.
And what have we learnt about the reliability and credibility of the IDF ?
There's a video floating around of Hamas turning away the fuel. Pretty sad situation
Disappointing if true
Not saying it's not true, but I don't think timesofisrael.com is a particularly unbiased source in this conflict.
Well that explains my phrasing, doesn't it