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223

Transgender swimmer Lia Thomas out of Olympics after losing legal battle (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 5 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

195 comments fedilink hide all child comments

The US swimmer Lia Thomas, who rose to global prominence after becoming the first transgender athlete to win a NCAA college title in March 2022, has lost a legal case against World Aquatics at the court of arbitration for sport – and with it any hopes of making next month’s Paris Olympics.

The 25-year-old also remains barred from swimming in the female category after failing to overturn rules introduced by swimming’s governing body in the summer of 2022, which prohibit anyone who has undergone “any part of male puberty” from the female category.

Thomas had argued that those rules should be declared “invalid and unlawful” as they were contrary to the Olympic charter and the World Aquatics constitution.

However, in a 24-page decision, the court concluded that Thomas was “simply not entitled to engage with eligibility to compete in WA competitions” as someone who was no longer a member of US swimming.

The news was welcomed by World Aquatics, who hailed it as “a major step forward in our efforts to protect women’s sport”.

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[–] [email protected] 255 points 5 months ago (51 children)

I know I'm gonna catch heat for this, but sex-segregated physical competitions is one of the very few places where trans women shouldn't be treated the same. Women's sports competitions aren't segregated by gender, they're segregated by sex. Trans women are women in gender, but their body isn't a biologically female body. That's the exact definition of transgender - when your body's biological sex doesn't match your sense of gender. So by definition, trans women don't have a biologically female body.

The whole point of sex-segregated sports is for people with female bodies to be able to have a fair competition, instead of them not even getting a chance to compete at all because if they had to compete against biological males then almost 100% of females wouldn't even make the team. This is the whole reason why sports competitions are segregated by sex.

TLDR trans women should always be treated as women - except for sex-segregated physical competitions

[–] [email protected] 63 points 5 months ago (17 children)

The thing that really sucks is that tran women are gonna get absolutely dominated by cis men. HRT for long enough really does so so much to the body (hence why most sports allow trans people who have transitioned to compete). Tho trans men also would have insane advantage overs cis women if they competed together

Maybe there isn't any good solution. But what you are saying leads to a conclusion that there is no place in sports for trans people. Then again, these conversations always fall apart when we talk about cis people with abnormal hormone profiles.

End of the day, a lot of competitive sports come down to genetics. There isn't much room for someone with disadvantagious genetics to become the best in the world. For me, I don't see much difference in a trans woman who's transitioned being world class in swimming and a tall ass cis woman dominating in basketball. Especially when we don't see trans people sweeping in competitions as a wider trend

[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago (2 children)

There is a place for trans people in sport. Male, female, trans. Done.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I really don't think there are enough trans people competing at the highest levels to sustain that though.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 5 months ago (3 children)

That sounds like a more ideal compromise, though I am not sure if even that is without its own set of issues.

Basically, athletic performance falls on the same gradient as masculinity. The more masculine your body is, the more capable you are as an athlete on average. If you are a trans woman taking T blockers/estrogen supplements, your body becomes more feminine, but in turn you lose much of that athletic capability.

So hypothetically, if I am a trans woman and an athlete, where I am paid based on how well I do, am I incentivised to not take T blockers/estrogen supplements, or take them in more limited doses, in order to be a more capable athlete? Basically, am I forced to compromise my gender identity for a better paycheck?

We could force every trans athlete to undergo lab work before every match to make sure their T levels are within a certain threshold, but then is that someone's fault if their body is not being as responsive to the medication they're taking, and now they're out a job? Not to mention how that would basically force their medical history to be public knowledge.

I'm not sure I'm comfortable inviting these sorts of scenarios to occur, to be honest.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Trans women have been allowed in the Olympics for 20 years now. There have been zero trans medalists. If this advantage actually exists, why aren't they winning?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago (6 children)

If i had to guess I'd say it's simply numbers. Compared to the rest of the population, trans people are extremely rare, and so there likely just haven't been enough trans people to have been there yet.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago (2 children)

You knew you were going to catch heat for something that's extremely popular and common opinion?

[–] [email protected] 22 points 5 months ago

Bruh, I got cooked for voicing this opinion so many fucking times.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 5 months ago

Banned from many subreddits for voicing this opinion

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Well this comment section is awful.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 5 months ago (5 children)

Obviously the solution is to have a separate trans Olympics.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Or send them to the mens side, which is ironically is open to everyone.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 5 months ago (3 children)

I'm scared to reply, but is this not a plausible outcome? She is still a she, but could she compete on the men's team?

[–] [email protected] 18 points 5 months ago

I'm not 100% sure about every sports organization on the planet, but generally speaking the men's divisions are open to women and nonbinary people. I can't seem to find much in the olympic rulebook, and it also doesn't seem to have been tested or ruled on.

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