this post was submitted on 21 Oct 2023
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[–] [email protected] 280 points 1 year ago (11 children)

my dad is refusing to take vaccines because he thinks taking it will automatically make him vote dem because of nano-machine in them.

he also thinks vaccines are kind of HRT.

anyways how's your day?

[–] [email protected] 170 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago (3 children)
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[–] [email protected] 82 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (9 children)

I hope you are an adult and no longer live with your parents.

If that is the case remember this. If you cannot have pleasant encounters with him, you are under no obligation to have them at all.

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[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Ah so that explains my D cups

[–] [email protected] 39 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's all that government big pharma stuff that have given me moobs, things like:

  • Covid-19 vaccines;
  • Fluoride in toothpaste and tapwater;
  • Chemtrails;
  • a horrendous diet and little exercise;
  • pride flags
[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 year ago (5 children)

pride flags

You weren't supposed to eat them smh

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[–] [email protected] 149 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (33 children)

While I'm sure there is a crazy markup, it's important to note the cost to produce - as in manufacture - does not include the cost of drug discovery, which is extremely expensive and involves a good amount of risk over a long period of time.

You can't just compare the cost of discovering a new drug vs. cost of producing a generic without any research like that.

[–] [email protected] 139 points 1 year ago (5 children)

https://jacobin.com/2023/09/big-pharma-research-and-development-new-drugs-buybacks-biden-medicare-negotiation

Last year, the three largest US-listed pharmaceutical companies by revenues, Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson, and Merck, spent a combined $39.6 billion on R&D. That is, admittedly, a lot of money. But less than Medicare is currently paying on just ten drugs

While Big Pharma holds vast portfolios of existing patents for prescription drugs, the innovation pipeline for new drugs actually has very little to do with Big Pharma. In reality, public sources — especially the NIH — fund the basic research that makes scientific breakthroughs. Then small, boutique biotech and pharmaceutical firms take that publicly generated knowledge and do the final stages of research, like running clinical trials, that get the drugs to market. The share of small companies in the supply of new drugs is huge, and it’s still growing. Fully two-thirds of new drugs now come from these small companies, up from one-third twenty years ago. It is not the research labs of Pfizer that are developing new drugs.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 year ago

Pfizer COVID vaccine wasn't researched or developed by them. It was developed by the German BioNTech.

Still, bringing it to market at the required volumes requires extreme amounts of capital, there's a reason no one can enter the club.

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[–] [email protected] 50 points 1 year ago

R&D on drugs is insanely expensive, but the protections put in place with the pricing are also a bit absurd. Most drug companies will lock down the formula for a period of time and price the drug aggressively for a short time (like a few years) and then open the formula up to generics who buy it and sell the same damn thing for a fraction of the cost.

For clarity I’m agreeing with you that the price is largely due to non-manufacturing costs and the article is misleading as a result, but I also wanted to say that the whole industry is a testament to capital over humanity.

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[–] [email protected] 106 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Intellectual property is a scam. A commonly heard defense of intellectual property is that it is needed for companies to fund their R&D. However pharmaceutical companies typically spent a lot more money on marketing & sales than they do on R&D. Big Pharma spending money on marketing and sales is harmful to our health. Apparently it's a lot more lucrative to get people drugged up on painkillers or whatever than to discover new medicine. If we didn't have intellectual property then we would have competition resulting in the lowest possible medicine prices. Companies would have no money for marketing so medicine would be judged on their actual properties, only the best would be given to patients, not the best marketed, but best health-wise. Companies would have no money for R&D either, but the government could fund R&D We shouldn't blame the players, we created a system that produces these bad actors. Let's change the system so that these bad actors couldn't exist. Intellectual property is a international problem, join the pirate party of your country and let's make it happen!

[–] [email protected] 84 points 1 year ago (11 children)

They don't do R&D; the university system does and they take the research, often without pay.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 year ago

There is some level of R&D they do to productize it, manufacturability and scaling. And running drug safety trials cannot be cheap, especially the liability insurance.

That all said, I think it's criminal that the university labs pay so little. PhD students barely make over $40k, set by the NIH. Not adjusted for CoL either.

I think I have more of an issue with the for-profit nature of pharma companies. Shareholders shouldn't be involved in medicine.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago

I hate corporations i hate corporations i hate corporations I hate corporations i hate corporations i hate corporations I hate corporations i hate corporations i hate corporations I hate corporations i hate corporations i hate corporations I hate corporations i hate corporations i hate corporations I hate corporations i hate corporations i hate corporations

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[–] [email protected] 101 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The eu:

€20 take it or leave it

[–] [email protected] 39 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Scandinavian countries:

Free, take it or leave it

[–] [email protected] 66 points 1 year ago (10 children)

I don't think he meant to the consumer. EU countries can negotiate for the price with pharmaceutical companies, so they can lower the price.

In the US insurance companies can try to negotiate, but their weight is quite low, and the federal government (medicaid, medicare) is forbidden by law to negotiate. Whichever price pharma sets, it's that.

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[–] [email protected] 83 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

From the bottom of my heart, fuck you Pfizer. I have had Covid twice, had my blood oxygen drop as low as 79, and I would still rather die a miserable covid death than suffer the injustice of being greed raped by the absolute worst caricature of capitalist pigs that actually came to life. I hope that money makes your board members miserable and can't do much to treat the uncurable, flesh eating disease your evil pig carcasses should be justifiably riddled with by karma, leaving your kids to donate your disgustingly afforded estate to charity to cleanse themselves of the nasty aftertaste of human suffering, the faint stink of people who are trying to take paxlovid and recover from a major virus in the rain and vulnerable cold because they can't afford both rent and medicine, after your death. Burn in hell, you uncaring scum.

EDIT: I realize this is a lot of vitrol to throw out into the universe, but they likely won’t ever see this on Lemmy, and to make matters worse they clearly won’t care anyway. It's just my own version of catharsis, I guess

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[–] [email protected] 82 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Didn’t the government fund the development? So.. it’s not like they need so much to recover R&D right?

[–] [email protected] 50 points 1 year ago

Welcome to the United States. Everything is subsidized, then turned around to fuck the average person.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 year ago

The government did not for Pfizer. That was Moderns. Pfizer did spend billions of their own cash. This move is largely because the executive leadership way overestimated the amount of covid vaccine and drug treatment revenue for this year, and they are desperate to make up ground.

So they are raising prices and cutting across the board rather than admitting they didn't know what they were doing in their projections. CEO isn't taking a pay cut though. Morons got a winning lottery ticket in the pandemic and assumed they'd keep winning every year.

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[–] [email protected] 73 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Paxlovid kept me alive when I had COVID. This makes me really upset. People will actually die without this.

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[–] [email protected] 51 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So many Martin Shkrelis out there pricing drugs to the highest level they can get away with. Every big pharmaceutical company does this kind of thing, especially with new drugs.

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[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Thanks capitalism!!

/sarcasm.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 1 year ago (9 children)

I'll never understand why so many people think middlemen somehow makes shit cheaper...

Taxes > government research > cheap meds

With the bonus point of no more pharmaceutical companies selling shit like oxy for profit

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[–] [email protected] 47 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's been too long since the aristocrats were reminded that they need us more than we need them and that they can't hire enough of us to stop the rest of us once we take an idea to mind.

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[–] [email protected] 47 points 1 year ago (5 children)

The amount of Pfizer boot lickers here is astounding

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[–] [email protected] 43 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Seriously, people are acting like this is new. There is no sense in shaming them we've had it brought to the mainstream by people like Martin Skhreli and nothing has been done. Martin Skhreli himself is only in jail because of his ponzi schemes, a.k.a. screwing other rich people out of their money. The only reason Pfizer was praised was because it was needed in a time of need and because they hired plenty of lobbyists.

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 year ago (27 children)

I was given (free) Paxlovid when I finally contracted covid this year. We need laws regulating price increases. If you can't demonstrate that your costs for a product or service went up, you can't increase by more than x%. I don't know how you do this without encouraging higher introductory prices because it's not a problem that I've thought about in depth, but something like this needs to happen with further consideration.

Another thing I'd like to see is robber barons getting prosecuted for crimes against humanity, but that's not realistic.

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 year ago (3 children)

13$ to produce including all the R&D behind it?

I'm not a fan of big pharma, quite the contrary, but I'd be curious to know where this number comes from...

[–] [email protected] 53 points 1 year ago

I bet they got a lot of grants and other funding. They aren't disclosing their costs so you can assume it's less that you imagine.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago

As if they'll lower the price once they've recouped the R&D costs ten times over.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 year ago (5 children)

That would be the us government soooo.... The citizens of the usa

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago

Taxpayers, through the university system

[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Don’t ever think for a second that pharmaceutical companies did anything during Covid for our benefit. They were working their actuarial tables to figure out how they maximize their profits in the future against sick people dying.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago (14 children)

And who is in charge of making sure this kind of immoral illegal thing doesn't happen? People who are still somehow allowed to collect kickbacks in exchange for looking the other way.

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