this post was submitted on 07 Dec 2023
540 points (87.7% liked)
Asklemmy
44136 readers
1092 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
Search asklemmy π
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- [email protected]: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_[email protected]~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I absolutely get the sentiment, but with arguments like these i always end up running into hypocrisy and double standards. There are plenty of illiterate adults and we are rightfully allowing them to vote, so do the blind. Paralyzed people are also voting despite them not being physically able to move a lever. As you said, there should always be help available.
In practice i doubt many babies will articulate a desire to vote and the number of extremely young children will also be limited. So to me if a 6 year old comes up and says "i want to vote" i say let him, he certainly is affected by the consequences of the elections regardless.
I would note that depending on the implementation this can also be a unneccesary hurdle and be abused as seen in the US.
As an inherent right it really should be as automatic as practial limits allow it to be (some sort of register is ofc needed to prevent voting multiple times).
Here in Germany for example it's simply tied to your registered primary residence, which means that only people without such have to actively seek out registration wherever they live.
And that's the slippery slope: Who gets to decide that "certain type of person"?
To go with your example of the number of children: I think statistically poor people have more than the rich. Is that what we want to fight? Also who is to say that children vote the same as their parents?
An illiterate or blind adult can ask for help. A poll worker will read the ballot or provide a braille version to help them, and will fill out the ballot with them if requested.
I'm still agreeing with you, you've convinced me that any age barrier is arbitrary and hypocritical.
As for registration being a hurdle, the courts have long held that the effort to be registered is minimal, as again there are resources to help people get registered. There are outreach programs, and you can actually go to your local post office or dmv and they will help you register. Children would have an even easier time, since anyone in school could have a teacher or school staff help them.
Children are particularly beholden to their parents for support, though, and by "certain type" I mean the type of person who thinks that having a child is a means to an end. There's a whole spectrum of quality parenting decisions, but as a general rule, anyone who is having more kids to have more votes is probably a bad parent.
Children are not autonomous and are beholden to another citizen for their existence. That's a civic relationship too easy to abuse with, what I see to be, very little net benefit.
I'm in support of not taxing children, but how will you distinguish an intentional purchase made by a child vs a purchase made on behalf of someone else for the benefit of a tax-free purchase?
I just want to say thank you. It's... so unbelievably rare to find someone else on the right side of this in the wild. To not have to fight this fight alone.
Thank you for stepping up, for speaking out, for... all of it.
Glad to hear that! I think there are plenty of us, it's just really hard to to have these kind of discussions online and other voices are just louder.