this post was submitted on 11 Sep 2023
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Oof. I just want to say as a Jew that is constantly trying to dispel the myth of Jewish media conspiracies, Zuck really isn't doing us any favors here.
And not all Jewish people support Israel! I have to assume many understand what's going on and side with Palestine.
What does "side with Palestine" mean? I side with the innocent people unjustly targeted in both Israel and Palestine, Israel has tolerated completely unjust treatment of Palestinians as well as done it as a state. But, groups like HAMAS also fire missiles at innocent civilians. Not to mention the many nations that have tried to unprovoked invade Israel. I'm not saying the Israeli government is innocent, it's not, but it's more complicated than just "siding with Palestine" being the right answer.
If we go far back in the history of the land... that list goes all the way to the paleolithic, and includes Israel itself. Some call it the "promised land", "holy land", and stuff like that, but in practice it looks more like the "cursed land".
If we go less far back, you'll find the point where the Roman's conquered the lands, kicked out all the Jews and renamed it to Palestina to spite them.
"Syria Palaestina", for extra spite.
If we go back, Israelites were going around offering cities to either join them or be exterminated... if we go forward, Crusaders gave no option to anyone... and so on.
It's a really bad patch of land, now with too many large religions trying to claim it, some even hoping for the Apocalypse to start there ASAP. Then you add the water shortages, and global warming is only going to make those worse.
I just meant siding with the people being forced out of their homes by Israel and placed under heavy surveillance while under constant threat of attack. I can't blame them for wanting to fight back.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/watch?v=AHfUm0Eda80
https://piped.video/watch?v=TTPvFIV_KzA
https://piped.video/watch?v=rPJGUk-L4qQ
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Good bot!
Yeah I agree, I side with the innocent people, not necessarily all the semi-state entities in Palestine.
With attacking innocent civilians I can.
Hamas is less "attacking innocent civilians" and more doesn't know where civilians will be since they are a poor and oppressed retaliation force. And the Iron Dome is pretty much impenetrable because Israel shoots anything down in their airspace.
There is a very important difference between aiming generally at the oppressive force which includes civilians who continue to replace Palestinians who've lived there for their whole lives and targeting civilians, children included. Palestine does the former, Israel does the latter.
Look, I don't actually think I'm going to convince you of anything, but I hope it gives you pause at least.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/watch?v=rPJGUk-L4qQ
https://piped.video/watch?v=kAm9-Cli6zs
https://piped.video/watch?v=WmdnLioi5r0
https://piped.video/watch?v=K8Xu_8Fw0l4
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
The state of tribalism where when someone points out something isn't simplistic clear "good vs evil" all the time they are suddenly "Enlightened centrism"
The defence of the indefensible when someone tries to say both sides are to blame when only one side is engaged in state sanctioned crimes and the other lives in a ghetto surrounded by the others soldiers who routinely drive into the ghetto and kill them.
A state actor can be wrong and a terrorist group can be wrong??? There are more than 2 sides in life. Stop with the tankie logic where they support ISIS because it opposes the US.
I've been to Jewish gatherings where they had duplicates of some food products because half of them insisted on eating an Israeli brand and half of them refused to.
Yes, I'm one of them. But again, that's not the audience I'm worried about. I'm not worried about what the mainstream thinks of Jews, or Jews think of Jews, I am worried about the feedback loop between far right influencers who promote conspiracy theories and the disaffected media consumers that they radicalize into violence. This kind of behavior is fuel for a very dangerous cycle.
I don't disagree with this. Far right radicalization is a huge problem.
And not all the people that support Israel are Jewish nor are being paid by Jews to do so. Many understand that Hamas is a fascist regime and simply don't like fascism.
He's and asshole regardless of his lineage, not because of it. Just so you know someone else out here has a little grounding in reality.
Thanks, though unfortunately it's not people like yourself (who understand such things) that worry me.
i still wait for the day when i can criticize the state of israel and some of it's policies without getting branded as an antisemite.
And those of us Jews who don't support the state of Israel can't wait for the day we stop getting tied to it just because we're Jews. So there's problems both ways.
I'm also waiting on the day where Israel isn't marked for extermination by multiple countries/terrorist organizations.
You can. I do. As a Jew and as someone who has family living in Jerusalem who all hate Bibi and what he stands for. Fuck Bibi and fuck the Knesset. And fuck Zuck too.
Im Austrian, so im basically forbidden to speak such heresies.
If you're talking about Lemmy users, I think that day is already here. If you're talking about far right Zionists and ultraorthodox Jewish supremacists, then never. Between these two ends is where you find the mainstream gatekeepers of information like Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerburg, the Sulzburger family (who own the NYTimes), Jeffrey Bezos (who owns the Washington Post), etc.
I think the democratization of information is probably the most important step towards creating space to speak openly about human rights abuses anywhere, regardless of how powerful the people responsible are.
Well, not so much a conspiracy, but Israel is employing social media propaganda, similiar to the infamous russian "troll factories". It was often very well noticeable on reddit, as sometimes two different accounts posted the exact same comment with pro Israeli talking points. Their main target is facebook and other large plattforms though.
Any sources on any of that?
I often saw this parroted on Reddit, though without sources. What I didn’t see, is what you described as “very well noticeable” - and I used Reddit a lot.
Anytime I look up this stuff I can only find relevant information from obscure websites which don’t list any sources. This honestly does seem like a conspiracy.
Some 180 students from Israel and overseas studying at an academic institution in Herzliya, in central Israel, are working from morning to night to monitor and foil fake news and anti-Israel propaganda on social networks and to advance the country’s point of view amid the conflict with Hamas and other Gaza terror groups, the school said.
Students in Israel are to form government-funded "covert units" to defend the country on Facebook and Twitter, it's reported.
Israel Making Positive Strides in Uphill Battle on the Information Front
team of Israeli contractors who claim to have manipulated more than 30 elections around the world using hacking, sabotage and automated disinformation on social media has been exposed in a new investigation.
First and third links clearly state that these students are volunteers, and also a fairly small amount of them. (Also doesn’t seem like trolling necessarily)
Second link seems promising, but it offers almost no details, and its source is HaAretz, an Israeli publication which I personally don’t trust (also the source article is behind a paywall).
Last link is about a private company and seems only slightly related.
Not really strong evidence of Israel running “Russian troll factories”.
Does it matter, whether the people are volunteers, paid or coerced? The fact stands that Israel is making a concerted effort to influence social media in their favor.
I find it a bit silly, that you want proper sources and then just say you don't trust a major Israeli newspaper without further explanation. Especially since the BBC deemed it credible as a source.
For the last link how is it "only slightly related?" It is a private company that is operating from Israel, run by ex-intelligence people, influencing elections world wide. This kind of things are not sold with a google add, but instead require extensive networks and contacts. It is implausible, that the company operated without the knowledge and approval of the Israeli government. Also the article states that the company was promoted on the website of the Israeli ministry of defense. Finally Israeli intelligence has proven competent in many activities around the globe, but in particular in regards to digital activities (stuxnet). There is no reason to belief that they wouldn't have picked up on one of their former employees running these kind of activities.
I doubt that Israel makes no effort to influence social media.
I just think the effort made isn’t very big, and with the presented evidence this seems true. I don’t feel like looking through them again to pinpoint where exactly but some of the articles you shared flat out admit Israel isn’t very good at shaping public opinion.
Point 1 is kinda pedantic wouldn’t you say?
No.
The original comment in this subthread claimed Israel was running troll factories similar to Russia’s, and on a scale large enough for it to be noticeable on Reddit, while also claiming Reddit isn’t even the main focus of those trolls.
Point 1 basically goes to show that while Israel does attempt some social media influence, it appears to be at a far smaller scale then originally claimed.
In all honesty, I’d be surprised if there are many developed countries which don’t do this to some extent, so in my eyes singling out Israel in this case seems a bit weird.
Okay, I can see why that correction would maybe argue specifics against being 1:1 with Russian troll factories but even you just said the magic word: “similar to” which is obviously pretty loose, hence my distaste for the pedantics.
Overall, I agree though - most countries should be doing this just to counteract other countries doing this until we can start calling out ourselves for doing these things
change yourself, change the world and that
At this point it's a given that any nation state with an interest in PR has their online troll teams.
Assumptions assumptions
As a guy wholly descended from the peoples of the British Isles, I have a similar feeling, only in my case, it really is true that my people have trashed the world for their personal benefit.
Granted that the Irish side of my family was never entirely on board.
wait wait wait are you saying that zuckerberg is jewish
oh noes