this post was submitted on 24 Nov 2023
414 points (88.6% liked)
linuxmemes
21378 readers
1146 users here now
Hint: :q!
Sister communities:
Community rules (click to expand)
1. Follow the site-wide rules
- Instance-wide TOS: https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/
- Lemmy code of conduct: https://join-lemmy.org/docs/code_of_conduct.html
2. Be civil
- Understand the difference between a joke and an insult.
- Do not harrass or attack members of the community for any reason.
- Leave remarks of "peasantry" to the PCMR community. If you dislike an OS/service/application, attack the thing you dislike, not the individuals who use it. Some people may not have a choice.
- Bigotry will not be tolerated.
- These rules are somewhat loosened when the subject is a public figure. Still, do not attack their person or incite harrassment.
3. Post Linux-related content
- Including Unix and BSD.
- Non-Linux content is acceptable as long as it makes a reference to Linux. For example, the poorly made mockery of
sudoin Windows. - No porn. Even if you watch it on a Linux machine.
4. No recent reposts
- Everybody uses Arch btw, can't quit Vim, and wants to interject for a moment. You can stop now.
Please report posts and comments that break these rules!
Important: never execute code or follow advice that you don't understand or can't verify, especially here. The word of the day is credibility. This is a meme community -- even the most helpful comments might just be shitposts that can damage your system. Be aware, be smart, don't fork-bomb your computer.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I still don't get why a toolchain that can be replaced but never was able to make a stable kernel of its own after twenty years should get top billing in the name of the OS. A lot of that stuff was left in the dust, its relevance to the system grows smaller each year while the Linux kernel is the only reason they were ever able to make a complete OS in the first place.
Hardly anyone uses GNU without Linux; way more people use Linux without GNU than with it.
Plus, the community at large has decided long ago that the name is just Linux... Does it matter that that's the name of the kernel? No. Windows and MacOS aren't named after their kernels, or their toolchains, or any other component.
Anyway, there wasn't an OS until there was Linux to bring it all together.
Sounds like a good basis for some kind of techno-fantasy media.
The argument would be that on Linux, the majority of user-facing interactions are with GNU software, not the kernel.
Also, without GNU, Linux probably wouldn't even exist, at last not in its current form. GNU was already a mature toolchain when Linus started working on Linux. So it's all well and good to point out that Linux can get pulled out and combined with other toolchain, but you can say the same with GNU. It's out there running with BSD and Darwin. And BSD might not have a ton of direct users, but it's extremely important for servers.
You don't need Linux to run a free operating system, which was the goal of GNU, it really doesn't matter that Hurd was never completed. The goal was achieved so there hasn't been much incentive to develop Hurd.
I personally don't care what people call it, but I do think GNU deserves the recognition. Especially because some of their tools are extremely important, like gcc. Linux might not exist if gnu hadn't provided a functional toolset for an operating system. Hell if it wasn't for GNU, we might not have a free OS at all.
Without GNU, we'd probably be using variants of FreeBSD or similar, possibly even porting that toolchain to run on Linux kernel... I mean, their contribution was important, but so were a lot of other people and projects
Linus is the one who got a workable thing out in the public's hands. He didn't even want to name it Linux, but someone came up with that name and it stuck.
The GNU project did a lot of great things, but ultimately they weren't able to get a full-fledged operating system out that people could use, so they lost the opportunity to name it. It really shouldn't matter to them though. GNU is well known, its philosophies are critical to how the free software and open source communities work, it was basically a massive success in the way almost no other volunteer non-commercial projects ever are.
But tagging "GNU/" in front of Linux is dumb.
I don't think tagging GNU in front of Linux is dumb, people wouldn't care to figure out who they are and what its about if they didn't do that. You have to give credit to both of them. I still would want GNU there, even if I don't say it most of the time. I call it Linux mostly but sometimes I call it GNU plus Linux just to be accurate.
Even now with more eyes on GNU, Herd still isn't a serious kernel. BSD has more users and support than GNU Herd.
I thank the GNU community for making wonderful tools and making libre software possible, but it doesn't exactly deserve top billing.
Linux without GNU can live, with BusyBox or Android. GNU without Linux would have never taken off. Though I'm curious if in another timeline without GNU, Linux might not have taken off, as GNU had all the tools but no kernel.
Well we have Linux as the kernel now, and with linux-libre and FreeBSD there's no real need for another kernel. So no reason for anyone to invest in it. I do think Hurd is kind of interesting conceptually, and it's at a point where you can actually run it now.
And yeah, without GNU, I'm not convinced Linus would've bothered with Linux. GNU was off the ground long before Linux was production ready.
Linus didn't write Linux for GNU, though, he wrote it as a response to Minix which, if memory serves, was written by one of his professors and took a hard minimalist approach for teaching purposes and Linus wanted to make something actually practical.
Hell, it had to be adapted to work with GNU (or GNU adapted to work with Linux, I don't remember which) so, if GNU's absence meant Linus didn't write his kernel, it would have been a very indirect result
There was no need to develope Hurd after linus torvals came out with Linux. It's more important to develop drivers.