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Leave the Democratic party AOC, and enough people will follow that we can maybe actually make a difference.
What a colossally terrible idea that is completely detached from where the average American is politically these days.
It's actually an incredibly based idea, but the public is too stupid to recognize it.
I mean yes I would love to see it but what I’m also saying is that yes, the public is not going to support it
You're right about the public, but that also means there is no hope and no one should care or try.
If the people will only vote neoliberal or fascist, theres nothing to be done other than store food and water and hope you aren't noticed until complete societal collapse. There is no possible path to a decent society when both choices are fine with the poor dying to enrich their bribers.
I think after 24 years of holding my nose and voting Neoliberal, telling myself the lesser evil will somehow lead to salvation, and fighting for Sanders on 2 campaigns, I'm done participating. Harris was my last gasp of appealing to this cesspool's nonexistent sense of decency. I'm not going to endorse or signify the Neoliberals new meet in the middle low next cycle, where they call for "more humane" concentration camps as compromise. My hands are dirty enough voting for the good cop in this corpo fascist good cop/bad cop routine all this time.
George Carlin called it, the people suck so things really can't get better. We're a garbage people that largely despise the idea of an equitable society. Better collapse than perpetuating that. Not like people who only vote for which tribe to hurt deserve more.
I didn’t say don’t care or try. I’m saying third party isn’t the path.
The only way this is true is if losing is more based than winning.
As someone that never trusted either party, this is the one way to get my vote.
The Dems are 80% dusty skeletons desperate to simply stay in office. They don't do a single thing in the interest of the people, otherwise this whole thing wouldn't be an issue. F them and F the GOP twice as hard. They are very much also a part of how we all ended up here.
Most Americans are so deeply fed up with both parties, that they just tune the fuck out. Republicans are evil and Democrats are feckless. Americans have been starved for any kind of meaningful change since the year 2000. The whiplash politics we currently all are living through is a direct consequence of that.
Americans wanted significant change from the status quo, so they went away from Clintonism to Bush. Then they wanted significant change (hope and change, remember that?) so they went Obama. Then they wanted significant change so they went Trump. Then again, wanted significant change, and they went Biden. And yet again, whiplash, and we get Trump.
Americans are desperate for change and have no way to express that through the currently available options.
You’re asking to turn apathetic voters into 3rd party voters. I don’t think you realize what that means.
Oh no, I'm asking apathetic voters to be so apathetic that brands no longer matter either.
I legitimately do not understand what you are saying
I would go into the game theory and political theory of this, but I fear you wouldn't understand that either.
It's OK, if it happens, things would be so beyond fucked to get us to that point that it's less of a "third party" and more of a "survivors" scenario.
No…what you said literally made no sense. Have a good rest of your weekend.
Or.. hear me out.. It was a colossally terrible idea to not do this after the ratfucking of 2016. Or the ratfucking 0f 2020. Or the ratfucking of 2024. It was a colossally terrible idea to leave the clearly incapable managers of the Democratic party in place, and in lieu of replacing them, which doesn't appear possible, to identify and adopt strategies that go around them.
We've done orders of magnitude more damage to ourselves by continuing to support Democrats when Democrats do not support us, in anything other than meaningless performative bullshit.
Getting off heroine is hard. Alcoholism detox can kill you. But not dealing with either of those things isn't a solution to the problem.
The Democrats are not your freinds. They aren't even your allies. They are a tool preventing you from having access to power and to prevent us collectively from making the kinds of changes that can kill fascist movements in the crib by not allowing the legitimate conditions that permit grievance politics to persist.
By occupying the space where real change, where an authentic attempt to better the lives of people would be, Democrats are a tool to prevent the addressing of the fundamental problems we have in society. Leaving these issues unaddressed give fascists legitimate grievances to co-opt into these kinds of racist and fascist movements.
You're not arguing against Democrats, you are arguing against basic math. Here is a primer for why going third party is a complete non-starter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo
The way forward is to transform the Democratic party from the inside out. It's not impossible, Trump did it to the entire Republican party in the span of less than a decade. Vote in PRIMARY elections.
Good video on the problem with system we're stuck with (the only ones who can change it are the ones who benefit from it). Another interesting related video is this one about the history of parties and once again you see that while sometimes extra party movements pop up, they always get absorbed into one of the two big ones.
It's math. Until we change how we elect, it will always be this way. And just like you mention changing the Democratic party from within, so do we have to change how we vote from the lower to the higher. Some states have started better systems, and the more than do, the more likely it can be worked into the federal level.
Yes, I agree, any kind of ranked choice voting system would help to end the two-party duopoly. If you are lucky enough to have your state consider a ballot measure to introduce such a system, do everything in your power to help it pass.
Unfortunately, it will not be easy; for obvious reasons, there are many powerful political forces opposing such reform. Here is a page showing how well such measures have done in recent elections: https://ballotpedia.org/History_of_ranked-choice_voting_(RCV)_ballot_measures
By the way, if you liked the CGP Grey Animal Kingdom video, it continues as a short series: https://www.cgpgrey.com/politics-in-the-animal-kingdom/
I mean, you don't legitimately think that we can do that in the current system do you?
Like, try and see the contradiction in your thinking.
It's not contradiction, you're talking about something different. I'm talking about First Past The Post elections vs. other systems that allow more than two parties to be competitive.
To be clear, you are repeating the same argument that has been being repeated, for effectively 25 years. This is exactly the same argument being made in the year 2000 when the Democrats rolled over on Bush V Gore.
If you want any one to take this argument seriously at this point, you need to tell me how the last 25 years of evidence showing that this approach to politics doesn't work, will work this time. Because to be clear, your exact strategy is the theory of change thats been in application. And the result was the rise of fascism globally.
Give me a reason to take this argument, thats been repeated and repeated, again and again, seriously, when the data we have shows that pushing for change from within the DNC isn't working.
Your strategy is quite literally the only strategy thats been attempted, and what we got for it was the rise of fascism. So whats different this time? Why should we take you seriously?
Trump would’ve won 2020. You do realize that right?
Vote in primaries. Kick out the pelosis and schumers. Give the reins to the AOC’s. If that’s not possible it only proves there is no political appetite among Americans for progressive politics, which is our loss.
Okay so just keep doing the things that haven't worked in the past?
I just want to be clear what your argument is. You want the strategy to be the same thing that people have been trying to do for 25 years?
Oh so we voted them out?
Republicans voted out their corporate overlords for fascists and racists.
Democrats failed to do so. Now the Democrats can't win an election to save their life.
🤔
Yeah that’s what I thought 🤷♂️
3 of the last 5 presidential terms had a Democrat in office. 3 of the last 5 presidents were democrats period. They just barely lost their first popular vote since 2004. They won the 3 before that as well.
Democrats have taken control of either or both chambers on a consistent basis. They have not had some notable run of losses. In fact it’s the GOP that is struggling to keep its majorities even in favorable electoral conditions.
The majority of the country is represented or otherwise governed by democrats and have been for…20 years now I believe?
So what exactly are you talking about?
This is TDD we're talking about. One of the louder more prominent blue maga screechers. Who still hasn't realized or just doesn't care that they were made a fool of and used. That has massive dreams and whose failures are even larger than those dreams. Blasting themselves in the foot all the way down.
TDD is third party ride or die. They know that that is where it's at. They're only 7% away from breaking 10% in national elections that's so close! Only another 40 to 50% for them to win an election. That's practically nothing! Why would anyone want to reclaim the Democratic party. Use it's brand recognition and reputation with the average person build strength and coalition. It's got cooties! /S
That's the level of logic you'll get in any responses from them.
I mostly make my point to the benefit of onlookers (hopefully benefit lol) so I appreciate the context! Didn’t realize this dude had a reputation .
LOL yes the same here. And I see they did exactly as I predicted further down
This idea had some merit two years ago but it’s too late. And trump proved that you can take over a party if your tribe is popular enough.
The claim has been that this idea is always 2 years too late since Jesse Jackson.