this post was submitted on 02 Feb 2025
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leftist : anti-capitalism :: liberal : pro-capitalism
Why is this so hard for some radlibs to understand? I think it is all the propaganda they passively consume.
Liberal means PRO LIBERTY. Its right there in the fucking name leftoids
Liberalism means PRO CAPITALISM.
The first sentence from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism:
From the first paragraph of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property†:
Liberalism: A Counter-History (online copy)
†Not to be confused with personal property.
Liberal means pro capitalist liberty. Nothing about personal freedom, equity and social safety nets in that.
no no no. Left is when you love democracy and freedom and liberty and rightwing is when you love authority and disciplined organizations.
Capitalism is so all-consuming it's like water to fish. "Capitalism" becomes synonymous with words like economy, markets, trade, laws, and government. It no longer is an ideology, but an immutable force in the universe.
Is that a Mark Fischer quote?
I'll say it again, in the United States the term "liberal" is used to refer to liberal social ideas NOT liberal economic ideas. To the average US citizen left and liberal are synonyms. This doesn't mean your definition isn't correct for academics and the entire rest of the world. But this meme, and this left vs liberal argument for this post, are US based.
We know that, which is why we’re trying to deprogram Americans from the Orwellian newspeak they’ve been mistaught so they can develop class consciousness.
I'm not sure how colloquial vocabulary usage prevents developing class consciousness. I'd potentially argue refusing to accept the evolution of language and refusing to communicate to people in the terms they use and understand inhibits said deprogramming.
Again very US centric in this definition but it's who needs deprogramming.
You don't think words can mean things?
You just live in some kind of word salad blob?
~~What? That's literally the opposite of what I'm saying... I'm saying words can have multiple meanings depending on context.
But the point of this was how does "liberal" having a different colloquial definition from how op was using it have anything do with "developing class consciousness" which can be done regardless of this single word?~~
Yes
Sometimes the evolution of language isn’t so much organic as it is a political project, such as a century of red scares and socialist purges.
Americans believe Sanders when he calls himself a socialist because they’ve lost a vocabulary for socialism itself. And they think Sanders’ centrism is “the left,” because the Overton window has shifted so far right that there is no left left.
We can’t simply use their terms, because their terminology is both muddled and lacking.
Ok. But regardless of the cause, organic or political project, it doesn't change the fact that the language has moved on correct?
But there's the rub. You/we ARE using their terms and the message is muddled and lacking BECAUSE OF the difference in perceived definitions. And as the past couple decades have shown there is zero chance of getting the American people to learn things, or unlearn as the case may be.
I assume very few people this far down a thread into a political discussion, on Lemmy, don't know what the Overton windowS are and how fucked the US is because of the current far right position on the left/right scales. I find it lacking and dislike it's libertarian origins. We are even now discussing the difference of a word being used for social vs economic ideas and these two scales do not necessarily overlap.
Isn't it progressism?
But anyway liberalism is the ideology of capitalism. The artificial differences created between conservatives and progressists is just a smoke screen to create a false debate and prevent from challenging capitalism, switching the enemy from the rulling capitalist class to the person next door with different views
Yes, it’s hard for them to understand because of a lifetime of anti-socialist & pro-capitalist propaganda, propaganda which most of them aren’t even aware of, because for them it’s just common sense.
Leftist ≠ Leftwing
Liberalism is Leftwing leaning but isn't leftist
FTFY
Just realized were in .ml my guy. These guys have thrown the brick on trapos crazy koolaid jammer and only want to circlejerk about liberals and their infallible god kings stalin and marx
Nope, Liberalism is the "center" of the modern world in that it's the default status quo position and ideology of the ruling class.
Social liberal is the center. Liberal is centre-right to right-wing.
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