this post was submitted on 29 Dec 2024
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Let's say we have lemmy instances A, B, C.

alice from A makes a post "Hello, world" to B. What happens? How is it processed on servers A, B, C and how do users from A, B, C receive her post?

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[–] [email protected] 54 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

alice from A makes a post “Hello, world” to B

Alice can't make a post to B, but I assume you mean a community on B, let's call it foo. When Alice makes a post it first goes through A's local API and creates the local (and canonical) version of Alice's post. Once A has finished processing Alice's post, it will create an ActivityPub representation of Alice's post to send to B.

ActivityPub is basically a bunch of assumptions laid on top of JSON. An ActivityPub 'file' can be divided into broadly 3 types, Object, Activity and actors.[^note1] These types then have subtypes; for example, both Alice and foo are actors but Alice is a Person while foo is a Group.

A second important assumption of ActivityPub is the concept of inboxs and outboxs, but, for Lemmy, only inboxs matter. An inbox is just a URL where Lemmy can send activities and it's something all actors have.

So when instance A is finished processing Alice's post, it will turn it into a Page object, wrap that in a Create activity and send it foo's inbox.

Round about what the JSON would look like

{
  "@context": [
    "https://join-lemmy.org/context.json",
    "https://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams"
  ],
  "actor": "https://a/u/alice",
  "type": "Create",
  "to": ["https://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams#Public"],
  "cc": ["https://b/c/foo"],
  "id": "https://a/activities/create/19199919009100",
  "object": {
    "type": "Page",
    "id": "https://a/post/1",
    "attributedTo": "https://a/u/alice",
    "to": [
      "https://b/c/foo",
      "https://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams#Public"
    ],
    "audience": "https://b/c/main",
    "name": "Hello world",
    "attachment": [],
    "sensitive": false,
    "language": {
      "identifier": "en",
      "name": "English"
    },
    "published": "2024-12-29T15:10:51.557399Z"
  }
}


.

Now instance B will then receive this and do the same kind of processing A did when Alice created the post via the API. Once it has finished, it will turn the post back into a Page but this time wrap it in an Announce activity. B will then look at all the actors that follow the foo (i.e. are subscribed to it) and send this Announce to all of their inboxs. Assuming a user on instance C follows foo, it will receive this Announce and process it like A and B before it, creating the local version of Alice's post.

Edit: I made a small mistake, I said that foo wrapped the Page in an Announce, when it actually wraps the Create in an Announce.

[^note1]: Technically, Activity and actors are themselves objects, but they're treated differently. There's also Collection's which are their own type, but Lemmy doesn't really utilise them.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Thank you, very clear.

So B will list all users subscribed to foo, look at their instances, and send the update to them.

I assume that if someone from a new instance (D) subscribes to foo, then D will need to request all the old posts from foo, since they weren't pushed to D?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago

I assume that if someone from a new instance (D) subscribes to foo, then D will need to request all the old posts from foo, since they weren’t pushed to D?

Lemmy is pretty bad about backfilling content. Communities do have outboxs, but these only list the last 50 posts and you can't get the vote or comments on any of them. See GitHub issues #5283, #3448 and #2004.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

ActivityPub works like a magazine subscription. They don't send you back issues for subscribing.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Why does a mastodon user get completely different profiles and history when viewed from different lemmy instances? They look like 2 completely different users when compared except for having the same @address. In fact this makes them immune from moderation if they comment from a different instance than the mod is on.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Mastodon doesn't have Group support (fep-1b12), so when they reply to a post, they don't send it to the community's inbox (only to the inbox of the Person they're replying to), thus breaking Lemmy's model of federation.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Does ActivityPub really send copies of all activities to www.w3.org?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

No, the https://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams#Public is just there to indicate that it's ok for receiving instances to display this publicly, nothing actually gets sent to it. See the spec for more details.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Why not a binary flag or something? Is it just to avoid making it a formal part of the protocol?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I actually don't know, you'd need to ask someone privy to design decisions made with ActivityPub, like Prodromou or Lemmer-Webber. It's definitely not to avoid making it part of the protocol, because it already is (see the link in the last comment).

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Thanks—I meant “formal” as in “formal grammar”, not that it wasn’t described in the published protocol. As in, there’s nothing in the protocol’s explicit form that distinguishes between this implied meaning and a real extra recipient—so it simplifies the parsing but adds an extra post-parsing step.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

What about JSON-LD makes it so they have to include the "this is public" declaration in the to field instead of having an as:public property on the object? (I don't know a whole lot about JSON-LD or RDF more broadly)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Because it is JSON-LD and that's how JSON-LD works. It's an extensible format. Similar to XML namespaces.