this post was submitted on 03 Dec 2024
394 points (70.4% liked)

memes

10673 readers
2792 users here now

Community rules

1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour

2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [email protected]

3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month

4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins

5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.

Sister communities

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
394
Meme. (slrpnk.net)
submitted 2 weeks ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
417 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

cross-posted from: https://slrpnk.net/post/15795315

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

I don't need to think "all opinions are equal" to be "able to think". I don't need to accept Russians saying they've done nothing wrong and to "consider it from their point of view." Russia broke international law.

It's not a complex issue.

Oh yeah the old "no there's definitely people who actually want to be Russians in the parts of Ukraine Russia invaded illegally so they should probably maybe be able to keep those illegally invaded areas." No. Is there documentation of, say, Ukrainian people voting in Russian elections? That might imply they consider themselves Russians, right? Yes, there is documentation of that.

Occupied Ukraine encouraged to vote in Russian election by armed men

Stop being an apologist to Russia.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Do you understand that by calling me Russian apologists, when I've said several times that I support Ukraine, is just making my point?

You see enemies even in your allies.

If we are naming moustached men I remember some paranoid mustache men that also thought everyone was his enemy. How did that feel? Ah?

Last paragraph is just a joke, I don't actually think you are a stalinist just because you are so radical in your views, but you get me.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

You can say you support Ukraine, and still be apologist for Russia. Those aren't mutually exclusive.

"You are so radical in your views."

You're literally an apologist for Russian authoritarianism. You're spreading the propaganda that occupied Ukrainians actually want to be Russians. That is bullshit that Russia has been spreading for years. It's not controversial either. You just keep yourself ignorant, and probably didn't even click on the link I pasted, and definitely didn't read it. And you have the nerve to talk to me about the "ability to think"?

"Our citizens are very afraid. Of course if Russians with soldiers come to their flat and ask if they'd like to vote for Putin, everyone will say: OK, yes. Because everyone wants to save their life. But it does not mean that our citizens want to support Putin."

One resident of the Kherson region - the south-eastern part which is occupied by Russian forces - described to the BBC how voting was organised in his village.

We are unable to disclose his name or location due to security concerns.

"Pro-Russian locals visit households with ballot boxes, accompanied by armed military men. If they knock and no one opens, they move on to the next house. They don't break into houses, but they do visit," the local resident said.

They added: "This is ridiculous. What kind of election is it when there are two locals - one holding a list of voters and the other a ballot box - and a military man with a machine gun? This isn't democracy. It's a comedy show."

Here's more.

Ukraine war: Russia claims win in occupied Ukraine 'sham' referendums

News agencies run by the pro-Kremlin administrations in Donetsk and Luhansk are reporting that up to 99.23% of people voted in favour of joining Russia - a high percentage that would be unusual in a vote of this nature.

Like you can't... or won't call bullshit on things like ^ that?

You supposedly being "for Ukraine" doesn't really matter when you're touting Russian propaganda, consciously or not.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

I hope why you understand that while I'm willing to talk about this topic. I'm not willing to talk about it with you. Knowing that nothing productive will come from it.

You didn't put yourself in a position where anyone would be willing to talk about anything with you unless they 100% agree with you.

So there's no point. Why have a debate with someone who is not willing to debate? Your mind is settled.

I'm just saying that seeing enemies, even in your allies, and being so hostile toward anyone who doesn't agree 100% with you does not lead to good things.

We all have our red lines. I have mine. But nations or national sovereignty are just not one of my red lines. Or just being in favour of one empire instead of another. Not great red lines to have imho.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

It's incredibly ironic that you talk about agreement and openmindedness and "being able to think".

You can't discuss this. I hope for other reasons than lying about supporting Ukraine. But you did argue something that is Russian propaganda. Perhaps you knew it was, perhaps you didn't. But it definitely is.

Now you're refusing to answer whether you believe those things like Russia claiming a >99% voting turnout and support for Russia? Who's the closeminded person here. I'm willing to find out what's actually happened. What you're doing is pure ad hominem against me. You're saying "no-one will ever talk with you". But.. they do, all the time. People like you making statements like that are always wrong, and the worst is that you have to know it as well, but still decide to write that.

It would literally be dangerous to Ukraine to accept Russian propaganda as equal to fact. So if you actually do support Ukraine, perhaps stop spreading Russian propaganda (even if you do it accidentally)? If you refuse to look at the facts, then just don't talk about the subject at all. But do not assert things like "oh yeah they want to be Russians" and then have a tantrum about 'not being allowed to have a polite disagreement' when someone shows that's complete and utter bullshit.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Think whatever makes you feel better about yourself.

If you feel happy thinking that you spotted an evil Russian spy, so be it.

I'm just unwilling to talk about people who made clear that anyone not agreeing 100% on everything with them is the ENEMY, and HITLER supporters, and a RUSSIAN APOLOGISTS. And all the funny names you had against me.

Have fun in your echo chambers.

I would have a great debate about the conflict in Ukraine, because as I said, it's a complex issue, and complex issues are worth talking about from a wide variety of points of view. Just not worth it with you (knowing that as soon as I say something that's not 100% what you think you'll start throwing names and making Hitler comparisons), sorry.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Childish absolutism. It's genuinely very ironic you talk about openmindeness and "ability to think". (Try using the words "capacity to reason" next time, sounds smarter.)

You're strawmanning and adhominimininiminimionimg while ignoring literally every single thing I said. You're the stubborn one who isn't open for discussion.

Saying "Ukrainians in occupied Ukraine want to be Russians" while we have clear evidence they're being forced at gunpoint to vote and Russia publishing figures saying >99% voter turnout and support for Russia? I should be like "okay, yes, I respect your opinion and we can respectfully disagree on this, as it doesn't matter that what you're saying is dangerous disinformation and what I say can be factually backed up very easily"? That's what you want?

That would be "open discussion" to you?

No, you clearly can't have a debate about the conflict in Ukraine. You're actively avoiding debating it, and the one thing you said about Ukraine, I looked up and tried to "discuss" with you and you had a tantrum and deny everything and refuse to address how Russia is forcing Ukrainians to vote at gunpoint.

You are right in that there isn't a reasonable discussion to be had here, because you're stubbornly refusing to understand anything that isn't one of your shitty fallacies.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Ah, childhish.

You want something childhish? I didn't even read past that word.

Now I'm blocking you.

I'm just saying so you spare your fingers from a lengthy response that I won't be seeing.

I don't hold grudges, so I will unblock you in a few days. I just don't want to keep reading you right now.

Have a great day!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Exactly my point.

Why even reply with "I didn't even read that and I'm gonna block you"? What would you call that, if not "childish"?

Actively avoiding me pointing out you — perhaps on accident, but did nonetheless — spread Russian propaganda about occupied Ukraine wanting to be Russians, when we have a lot of evidence that's incorrect.