this post was submitted on 27 Aug 2023
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Ignoring the whataboutism, I wouldn't use the US as an ideal alternative lol. Both China and the US have many areas in which they should improve. It's in only one of those countries that it is potentially dangerous to say that though.
Ah yes, because the right to protest is very well-protected in the US and police never oversteps their bounds against activists...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Floyd_protests
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Manuel_Esteban_Paez_Ter%C3%A1n
The government also doesn't have a vast surveillance apparatus that spies on everyone and has public and fair justice system...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Court
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act
And I'm sure that the US never conducts extrajudicial killings of US citizens in non-hostile countries, because that would be wrong...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Abdulrahman_al-Awlaki
Meanwhile, weibo was full of posts condemning the COVID-19 lockdowns. It's still full of posts asking how the government plans to revive the economy. Hell, the lockdown protests in China literally forced the government to change COVID-19 policy significantly.
When was the last time a major US protest achieved anything?
Dude, I just said I'm not trying to say that the US is an ideal country to compare things to. I agree with you, the US sucks in a lot of ways.
I am saying that speech about sensitive topics can be dangerous in China. Hong Kong stuff, tiananmen square, Uighurs in Xinjiang, those kinds of things - the people I talked to seemed to be afraid to talk about those things, to the point that people would tell me "we should not talk about this." That isn't something that happens in places with stronger freedom of speech protections.
Please don't respond by a list of ways America is bad. I know that already, and it isn't the point.
If you're an obnoxious foreigner who only wants to talk about Hitler in Germany, you'll get similar responses. Or I know you said stop using USA a comparison, but in this case it's a very easy and apt one. If you only want to talk about how the WTC attack was an inside job in the USA as a foreigner, you'll get similar responses. It doesn't mean they accept your version of events, just that it's awkward to talk to you about it. Or I guess a similar one but back to Germany. If you're a yank who wants to commiserate about how fucked the GDR was with someone who lived in the GDR, they'll give you one half-arsed rebuttal then ask to change topic.
Lol thanks but no, I was not an "obnoxious foreigner."
Also super cool that you compared 9/11 conspiracy theories to disgusting shit with actual historical evidence. They know Tiananmen square happened. They just know not to talk about it, for fear of literally being arrested. Not the same.
So exactly the same then. Sep 11 conspiracy theorists also believe the attack happened. They just don't attribute it to terrorists but the local government. Which is exactly what June 4th conspiracy theorists believe. And from experience, obnoxious foreigners are usually June 4th conspiracy theorists, because those conspiracy theories are pushed by western propaganda outlets like Radio Free Asia and BBC. They sometimes also believe they drove over people with tanks and shot people in the square. Same with Uighurs. Maybe you just wanted to talk about Uighurs or Xinjiang, but the conspiracy theorists believe Uighurs are being oppressed, and obnoxious foreigners are more likely to be conspiracy theorists. Even if you aren't a conspiracy theorists, obnoxious foreigners usually are so at a certain point people just stop engaging.
Talking to people like this is frustrating because I feel like I have to clarify every single point I make, then clarify all of the incorrect presuppositions you made in your comment, then clarify all of the wrong points you made. It is exhausting.
The thing is though, I think we actually agree with the principals at play.
Lets just agree that people should be treated with dignity and respect, and have the right to speech without fear of negative repercussions from the government. If there are places where that is not happening, it should be happening.