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this post was submitted on 18 Nov 2024
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Hello. I'm from Germany and I have bad news for you. If our own history taught me anything, it's this: When there is a critical mass of citizens (including military personnel) who are willing to ignore common societal values and at the same time there is a corrupt justice system which can just bend the law to their will, there is very little in the way to full scale fascism. You guys have the groundwork for this right in front of your face. Your supreme court is only inches away from fulfilling that role and the last election showed that a majority of people are already blindsided enough to wholeheartedly believe the bullshit that they are being fed.
So please don't take this lightly. Democracy is not for granted and it can be taken away. It's a slow process up to a point where things fall in place and then it happens very quickly. In Germany the rise of the Nazis didn't happen over night. Warning signs were there from the first world war on, and the slow erosion of society along with economic factors was a key element. Hitler himself was widely regarded as a loud mouthed clown with little chance to actually accomplish anything.
The erosion part has been going on in the US for decades now. This time, most of the puzzle pieces needed are already in place.
And about the "they are incompetent, it won't be that bad" argument. They don't need competence to break things when they are in power. Breaking things is precisely what these people are looking for. Destruction of democratic values, economic instability, fear, poverty, chaos and social unrest are the key to more power. You just need to look at the designated cabinet positions. Those candidates were specifically chosen to fuck things up in the worst way imaginable. This is not a coincidence. This is a recipe taken right from the fascist's handbook.
A lot of us know and agree.
We are the ones without any power.
Please find your groups, organize, protest, demand change. We, the rest of the world, saw how big you've protested for good before, and it's needed now more than ever in your country. You're not powerless, you're not alone, and your actions matter.
You live in a country that used to pride itself as a world leader, and while that image is long gone and lost, we're still watching you guys.
And if you’re an early target, have an escape route.
You are correct, and those of us who aren't fucking morons have known this since even before he came into power the first time. We have a lot of horrible and/or apathetic people. Democracy is worthless if the populace is uninformed or doesn't participate. Now it's dead here.
Education should be free, even for the kids if the neighbor you don't like.
Of course it's not free, it costs tax money, but it's okay. Id rather my neighbors had free education, then maybe I'd like them.
I’d rather have less money and less idiots than more of both
I agree, but who says more taxes means having less money? I mean I pay tax, and then my kids are able to go to school, and potentially up to including college for free (when I took classes in college there was a token fee of 60 dollars per semester), and I've never paid for an ambulance, even though ive used one, my daughter has used one, and my wife has used several. Token fees at hospitals, and doctors offices. Token fees for expensive medicine, totally free medicine that you need to live.
Maybe it's my European point of view, I get that let's say if taxes are raised in a third world country, it would go to politicians families. What's his name Jared Kushner?
As an American, imagine understanding that, having the data for it with socialized healthcare, and constantly dealing with your country just deciding that it isn’t true because taxes will go up (even though they may no even go up much, the government pays out the ass for the uninsured who wait until it’s an emergency rather than getting preventative care). Committing to mass public transit would save time when you need time saved and make everything cheaper because we wouldn’t need parking spots. So much inefficiency but they’ve decided that government means inefficient and that government inefficiency is stuff like science and welfare.
My condolences. I won't hate on you Americans who end up as my neighbor in the future. I won't talk to you either, but that's not because you are American, that's because you decided to move to Norway and we don't talk to our neighbors here
I’ll try to assimilate and attempt to not make too much small talk with the neighbors, if I end up up there, but I am midwestern so I’m probably not going to be able to quit the stuff entirely. We may be annoying, but we’re almost as handy as Germans, so y’all should be able to learn to live around a few of us.
In all seriousness, I was exaggerating, if you do a little bit small talk with the neighbors who don't run away when they see other neighbors, you will fitt right in. Maybe even be a recipient of small talk if you figure something they like talking about
I'm an introverted guy with ADHD, so I avoid smalltalk, but if my kids are playing with your kids, and I had copious amounts of coffee, I'll have a word vomit, and my wife will text me to shut up about Greek mythology or whatever the other person mentioned first
The problem is this is the US. This is the world's most major superpower. This is the nation whose companies fed and propped up the Nazis. Because what little of democracy there was in the US is now certainly going to fall, it's going to drag the whole world with it. Too many shitheads in too many countries, including Germany, will be willing to follow suit, and all the major superpowers left will be all too willing to prop them up with little to no regard for what rules they won't break in the process. We might even see the US trying to strong-arm nations in the same way China has been trying to strong-arm Taiwan. At a time where the surveillance and control tools at their disposal are at a dystopian high. At a time ramping up for chaos due to major environment and resource collapses that we have been foreseeing for decades.
Absolutely. The tendencies are visible all over the world and there will be grave consequences for all of us. However, there are differences. In Germany for example after the horrors of WW2 the political system was specifically designed to prevent something like this from happening again (ironically the creation of the german constitution was heavily influenced by the US). Which sounds like a good thing at first, but what happened in the last decade was basically this: The right wing parties became stronger at every election and as a result there were coalitions forged between opposing parties to prevent right wing parties from taking over power. And this in term lead to years of standstill in political decision making, dragging down the country, because opposing parties tend to block each others ideas. Which in turn made the right wing even stronger, because they now had someone to blame for the resulting mess. Germany and by extension Europe as well have a lot of bureaucracy, which on one side gives a bit of a shield against hostile takeovers, but has a downside of inefficiency in acting to protect democracy too. It's not looking too good, but Trump's habit of pissing off his allies might have a net positive effect of uniting people against this bullying and encouraging them to get their shit together. But I think it's to early to tell. Could as well sway in the other direction and produce Trump bootlicking countries like you said.
About surveillance technologies, indeed the possibilities set our current situation apart from when Nazis came to power in the past. It's absolutely crazy to witness how a commercial surveillance industry disguised as ad services (Google/Meta/...) created a monster that makes Orwell's 1984 look like a children's book, and most people still don't even understand the implications in order to realize what they're up against. From a european perspective, there is an upside in that at least for now the EU is actively trying to limit the power of those mega corporations. These processes however are chugging along at snail pace due to the aforementioned bureaucracy. Slow, but steady. Which is at least something.
Sorry for the lengthy reply. It's such a broad topic and there are no easy answers.
the thing that infuriates me is not so much that it will happen, but that people will not believe that it is happening or has happened
Wonder what one can do about this?
There's a lot one can do. This is a nice starter:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/nov/17/how-to-survive-the-broligarchy-20-lessons-for-the-post-truth-world-donald-trump
I would have framed a few things differently, so here's my take:
The system thrives on fear and isolation of individuals. So, obviously, do not succumb to fear and apathy.
Be kind to your fellow humans (that includes people who believe the bullshit! Most of them aren't evil just very misguided).
Offer help and look out for each other.
Get organized, don't isolate yourself hidden behind your phone. There are organizations in which you can help a good cause and gain a network of trusted people in return.
Stay alert and aware of the situation.
Don't assume safety just because you think you're not the target right now. They start with the weakest ones but that's just the beginning.
Plan ahead and have an escape plan ready just in case.