this post was submitted on 09 Aug 2023
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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Lots of suspicious comments in this thread. Seems like political astro-turfing has already arrived on Lemmy

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Why would anybody astroturf this shitty fucking website lmfao

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

They are watching, to think otherwise is foolish

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You are so far right that you call anything and everything to your left astroturfing. You've been in a bubble for so long that it's a culture shock when you meet actual leftists.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Oh, yes. Actual leftists that somehow support every action of a particular nation. Actual leftists who don't mind government control of information and gives incentives for supporting them publicly. Actual leftists that are ok with some people being removed from society because of the groups they belong to. Yep, totally sounds like actual leftists to me...

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Actual leftists who don't mind government control of information

Yes, actual leftists. I'm going to quote to you some Marx. This is from Chapter 2 of the Communist Manifesto which is basically a 30 page pamphlet, I suggest you read it. I want you to pay particular attention to number 6.

The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible.

Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois production; by means of measures, therefore, which appear economically insufficient and untenable, but which, in the course of the movement, outstrip themselves, necessitate further inroads upon the old social order, and are unavoidable as a means of entirely revolutionising the mode of production.

These measures will, of course, be different in different countries.

Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.

  1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

  2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

  3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

  4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

  5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

  6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.

  7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

  8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

  9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.

  10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c.

As you can see, nothing here is at odds with that.

Actual leftists that are ok with some people being removed from society because of the groups they belong to.

What groups? If you're about to use Adrian Zenz as a source you are a joke. If you're instead claiming that working to abolish the existence of the bourgeoisie is a bad thing you are a clown.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You didn't just dunk him, you folded him into a ball and threw him into the sun

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I don't understand how people don't understand that control of the means of communication in the hands of the proletariat is a MUST to create a DOTP. Who the fuck do they think owns the media? The proles? Fuck no, the bourgeoisie own the media. It's ALL their media.

To empower the proletariat in the transitionary socialist state you MUST remove the advantages of the bourgeoisie. This is one of the biggest of them.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Must?

These measures will, of course, be different in different countries

Also note this part:

Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois production...

Notice, "in the beginning." Is China socialist or not? It is not the begining. The need to control the means of communication, as well as most of the rest of the goals, is to gain power over the bourgeoisie and place the power into the hands of the people. The means of communication must be seized in order to empower the people to communicate without their interference. How is the control that China has over communication providing for that and not the bourgeoisie itself controlling the media to prevent the people from communicating?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Socialism is the transitionary state between capitalism and communism. It exists in a state of warfare between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie.

We are very far away from defeating capitalism and such measures will remain in place until we have defeated it globally. What the fuck are you thinking? "Yes I want to give billionaires the ability to own media in my proletarian state so they can spew garbage propaganda until their counter-revolution succeeds". Are you out of your mind? What exactly do you gain from this? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. All you are advocating for is empowering the bourgeoisie to crush and re-exploit you.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Ah, yes. China is definitely trying to defeat capitalism globally by opening and expanding special economic zones. If anything, China has become more capitalist (because it makes the current bourgeoisie who control the "communist" government more money). Xi Jinping seems to have an estimated value of at least $1 billion USD. He's not of the working class. He's from the political class.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yes. It is. Your lack of understanding about what their tactics are is a personal failure on your part to seek out the information, not a failure on their part to continue to pursue socialism.

Xi Jinping seems to have an estimated value of at least $1 billion USD. He's not of the working class. He's from the political class.

Xi Jinping grew up in a literal fucking cave. This claim is akin to all the estimates of Stalins worth that literally just decided he owned everything that the state owns. Your """source""" for this is capitalist finance blogs after you googled "xi jinping net worth" that don't break down this figure whatsoever. They all just claim it. It's literally the embodiment of:

You have no fucking standards of evidence at all just like you have no fucking standards for yourself.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You mean the ones from hexbear aka lemmygrad-lite?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Possibly, I didn't look where they're all from, nor do I know what hexbear is or why it's significant. Sounds like some kind of intra-Lemmy drama which I'm not too interested in. Just noticed a fair amount, lets say........not totally organic, seemingly agenda pushing comments.

Edit: Forget my previous comment. I now see the problem with Hexbear.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

agenda pushing is when people have an opinion that doesn't align with my own

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)

No it's when there's mysteriously dozens of comments just magically showing up that are contrary to the vastly popular opinion on only one contentious issue, that serve the best interests of an entity with the time, resources to try to sway public opinion through fake grassroots posting. Also that entity has a fragile ego and a long history of online manipulation.......oh and also coincidentally they are all coming from the same server

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

maaaaybe we weren't federated until this week. but nah, paid bots makes more sense. very-intelligent

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

entity with the time, resources to try to sway public opinion

why would any foreign political entity waste its valuable english proficient resources on astroturfing an online backwater filled with politically illiterate nobodies? peak liberal solipsism

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It would appear that way yes......and as mentioned, they have a history of having extremely thin skin and doing exactly that. So do I expect some group to do the exact thing they have always done? Yes. Yes I do.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I would like to ask you to employ some critical thinking here. Setting aside that the people responding to you have much better English than even a pretty high-level English speaker coming from Mandarin, most of these accounts have months or years of post histories spent almost entirely talking to each other on their previously un-federated instance, including in some cases very harsh arguing, as well as talking about the US on a personal level with intimate detail (and/or whatever other country they say they are from). Do you really believe the most simple answer is that this is all kabuki theater by the CPC to astroturf an obscure collection of websites by wasting a ridiculous amount of resources and the time of highly English-fluent actors? vs just "some people think differently from you"?

If you concede this point, then I would like to ask you to just consider for a moment the implications of the fact that you took the much more absurd and flimsy explanation as though it was just the common-sense explanation. What does that say about the way that you conceptualize the world and what people believe?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

And by "have a history of it" you mean "I've been told it so many times in the western echo chambers I hang out it that I just implicitly believe it.

Mate, you've already had it explained to you where we're coming from, but apparently the idea of people who genuinely disagree with you is so fucking foreign to you that your redditor brain literally cannot process it, so you continue to descend into paranoid delusion.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Vastly popular opinion held by whom?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Anyone with half a brain can see what's going on. I'm not playing these silly obfuscation games. You're bad at what you do.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Yes, anyone with half a brain can see that people from a leftist instance are contributing leftist opinions to a space they just federated with. What were you expecting?

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago

Yes, anybody with half a brain can see that you have paranoid delusions.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

lol, so your issue is that people with similar opinions happen to be on the same server? truly the most obvious evidence of agenda pushing!

[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 year ago

I love how liberals think anybody who's outside of their echo chamber must be a paid shill. It's absolutely inconceivable to them that there is a significant amount of people who have contrary opinions.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hexbear is a large, leftist instance, that just recently federated, and most of us are pro-China. We're not bots and we're not getting paid, but we're not shy about our political views. That's the reason you're suddenly seeing a bunch more comments defending China.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Dude what are you talking about I’m paying down my mortgage with the xibux I’m getting from dunking on libs here.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You guys have been getting paid!? The whole time?? ohnoes

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I am literally swimming in oceans of renmibi right now scrooge mcduck style thanks to all the libs I have crushed at zaddie xi’s behest.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Plz tell Xi I have not received my payments this month I need it for buying Estrogen please Xi

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I know right! How come there are so, so many people defending China here? I thought they were the minority. Ugh. When I was back on Reddit comments like those would always be downvoted to hell.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Go back to watching your Fox News

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Go back to watching your Fox News

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Seems like you believe Fox News bullshit

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

Then quit repeating their lies

[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

We have a lot of pro empire shills here after the reddit migration.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

They're laughable. I've gotten like 30 replies to 1 comment and then they say "You seem mad" Yes....I'm the mad one. 🙄