this post was submitted on 01 Oct 2024
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Is it the cars, or is it police using laws as revenue generators that intentionally affect the poor disproportionately?
You are allowed to drive the speed limit, even if you're poor π
Not if the speed camera runs your plates to determine you're poor and notifies the police of an inbound precariat, letting them use their psychokinesis to entrap you into speeding.
Would it generate revenue if people didn't feel so entitled to put others' lives in greater jeopardy to get to their destination 30 seconds faster? No? Not speeding is the easiest thing in the world; it's an objective number not to exceed that you directly control and that your car tells you in real time, but at least in the US, drivers are in an arms race to see what kind of bullshit they can get away with, making cops less likely to pull them over. This means that when the average driver can β without warning and with precision β be dinged for speeding, they throw a tantrum about it and act like they've been victimized.
Ticketing does disproportionately affect the poor, and we should reform ticketing to change based on income, but can you seriously tell me with a straight face that the people doing this are doing it because they're protesting socioeconomic injustice? Or because they're entitled drivers who want to be able to speed with impunity? It's the drivers here being entitled and thinking that they're above the law. Personal vehicles are a privilege, not a right, but drivers don't treat it like one. Over 100 people per day die to motor vehicle crashes in the US alone, and kinetic energy increases with the square of velocity; if drivers don't like speed limits, they're more than welcome to stay off the streets and stop thinking their personal convenience trumps people's right to life.
These cameras do nothing to improve safety. There is no meaningful scientific evidence that shows any difference improvement in safety.
Their only value is socioeconomic harm.
βafter accounting for MVC increases in the control segment we found that neither camera placement nor removal had an independent impact on MVCs. In other words, speed cameras did not statistically contribute to an increase or decrease in the number of MVC.β
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3861844/#:~:text=after%20accounting%20for%20mvc%20increases%20in%20the%20control%20segment%20we%20found%20that%20neither%20camera%20placement%20nor%20removal%20had%20an%20independent%20impact%20on%20mvcs.%20in%20other%20words%2C%20speed%20cameras%20did%20not%20statistically%20contribute%20to%20an%20increase%20or%20decrease%20in%20the%20number%20of%20mvc.
Your own study links to a Cochrane systematic review which states the following:
You linked a study that took place along a single 26-mile stretch of road in Arizona, and while it does some good toward controlling for confounding variables, a single, highly localized study simply isn't as robust as a Cochrane systematic review.
Moreover, the study you link focuses on the number of collisions, while the Cochrane review focuses on injuries and deaths. What we were talking about before was β say it with me β injuries and deaths because of entitled, speeding drivers.
It focused on the Arizona study because that was the only one out of the 35 that actually measured Motor Vehicle Collisions. The rest did not even attempt it in any controlled manner.
As stated, there are no meaningful studies that these cameras reduce accidents.
So it sounds to me like you're not disputing the fact that they have a protective effect against injury and death. Maybe you should clarify that in your prior comment if that's how you feel.
I am in fact stating that there is no proof that they do anything to reduce collusions or deaths. I stated in my first comment that such proof does not exist.
These cameras are only deployed to generate revenue. There is no scientific basis for improved safety.
The authors of the systematic review had no reservations in asserting that the cameras lowered injuries and deaths, so how do they not affect safety? Do the cameras emit cancer-causing 5G beams or something that bring the number of injuries and deaths back into equillibrium?
So you're going to go back on the death (and injury) part now that it has been pointed out that the study you linked was only about the collisions. And itself points research that shows that there is a reduction in death (and injury).
Right?
That's 35 for and one against, due to heavily manipulating no less than 5 different variables, in order to force themselves to have to conclude that speed cameras don't improve safety.
Read your links folks!
so the camera can't be wrong? now someone has to go to traffic court if they want to fight it over a camera that's 1 second off or uncalibrated?
Boy, I can just feel the salt from a past speeding ticket coming from this comment.
Maybe stop being a shitty driver who feels entitled to break traffic laws designed to keep people safe from entitled, careless idiots in their two-tonne metal box. π You're whining elsewhere in the thread about a 37 in a 35 (3.2 km/h over, which should actually be taken seriously by law enforcement but isn't because of a culture of entitled drivers), so you're not even complaining about accuracy so much as how much illegal driving you think you should be able to get away with. Speed limits are already across the board much higher than they should be to cater to cars; if you don't feel like you're competent enough to do something as trivial as stay exactly the speed limit when they're already unfairly high in your favor, then it's a limit for a reason: you can go a mph or two slower than it, and you won't, like, die or anything.
LMAO
you're basing this all off of people breaking the law completely ignoring the fact that police ABUSE the FUCK out of people for nothing. don't act all high and mighty like you never do anything wrong.
I hope that was easy enough for you to understand. I'm sorry about your past speeding ticket(s). I hope you can someday find the strength to move on and become a more mindful driver.
if you drive at the speed limit you won't have a problem
the speed camera will be well signposted (car on the left so this is the UK) while it's not a legal requirement that they have signposts I've never come across a fixed camera that isn't
If you don't break the law you won't have a problem
the camera is painted bright yellow for visibility
once again for the those at the back who are hard of thinking: don't speed and you won't get fined
usually for first time offences if you're just a bit over the limit you'll get the option of a speed awareness course.
You've probably come to expect odd numbered points to tell you to not break the law by now, so I'll mix it up: if you get caught breaking the law and get a slap on the wrist, don't keep breaking the law.
I do agree though that the fining structure should be reformed, it should be a percentage of income with some provision in place so the super rich can't get out of paying their appropriate share too.
this MF is a bootlicker if I've ever seen one.
there are a million ways a cop would fuck you over, primarily being "not white" or looking at them wrong, NOTHING to do with law.
I'll give the UK a break as they're not nearly as bad as the US, but cops are not your friends and that sentence quotes is a joke.
"if you got nothing to hide, let me search your car"
fuck no.
No. This is a safety thing. This is multiple tons moving at speed. This gets regulated.
I don't think anyone has ever received a speeding fine from a speed camera who was going at the speed limit.
Stop being a cunt and think of others road safety.
You think wrong.
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/dartford/news/incorrect-speed-sign-probe-as-thousands-slapped-with-fines-301298/
https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1822861/driving-fine-ulez-speed-camera-law
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-10491833/One-six-speeding-fines-England-Wales-cancelled-says-road-group.html
The first two are newsworthy because of their exceptionality. Thousands of cameras two issues.
The third link points 100% away from the argument that it's just to get revenue. If it were they would be actively decreasing the amount of dropped fines. They'd be making sure cameras were calibrated correctly (as if they're not the court would throw out) and that they weren't
and that they wouldn't suffer from a
how about not being so dense and understand that governments can be wrong and abuse innocent people with no real recourse?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxpeY7m8Uog
https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/why-a-driver-going-36-in-a-35-mph-zone-got-a-speed-camera-ticket-in-virginia/3412446/
I don't know what the rules are in the USA but over here you should be stopping on amber, not blasting through.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/light-signals-controlling-traffic
you don't have to blast through, but there are times when you can't stop, and there are expected time frames between yellow to red depending on the speed limit no that street and if the city is reducing that time, when the rest of the nation knows what it should be, that should be 100% criminal charges to whoever decided to do that.
People trying to argue with this point, but the point is that if the punishment for a crime is fine, then the crime only punishes the poor.
I'm cool with impounding cars and putting drivers in jail.
That's an issue yes, but objectively America needs to slow down. Accidents above 70 have a sharply increased chance of death. Nobody needs to be doing more than 65. Electric cars also use a lot more energy and tire material to go above 65 and gas cars are using more gas to do it. This generally happens because in order to maintain those speeds they're constantly accelerating and braking around other cars.
I'm sorry driving isn't fun, it was never meant to be once we obliterated mass transit in the US. It's meant to get you to the destination, preferably safely.
You've never been in a fun car on a fun twisty back road. This is what driving should be, as we should not be dependent on driving to get everywhere.
Oh I have. I used to ride motorcycles and there's no better way to feel out those roads, I've been off-road too.
But the reality is it is the main form of transportation and it is not optional for most Americans. Which means we have a duty to make it as safe as possible. Yeah that also means boring. We've largely let capitalism and personal preference rule the day and motor vehicle accidents are the largest non-disease cause of death because of it.
And before anyone gets all up in arms about the every day person knowing a ton of regulations, this should all be taken care of on the manufacturer and seller side of things. The size requirements for commercial licenses should come right down to invalidating future purchases of giant pickup trucks, you know the ones, so big they can't park properly and an M1A2 tank has better visibility. Speed governors should prevent going over 80mph. Headlights should have a max capacity and a thermal camera should be standard to make night driving clear as day.
But the biggest thing by far is we need to make a project of mass transit such that driving becomes a profession and a hobby, not the main means of transportation. If we can get commuters and road trippers off the road then motor vehicle accident deaths will fall dramatically.
There are no speed limits on German motorways yet the death and accident rate is not higher that in their neighbours' countries. Go figure.
The statistic here isn't accidents. It's fatalities in accidents at X speed. Germans aren't driving cars that are any safer than the rest of Europe. If they get into an accident at 70mph or higher then their chance of death is also sharply increased.
The big difference between German roads and American ones is Germans can generally opt out by taking a train. Americans cannot.
Are you a little bit slow? You surely must grasp the concept that for it to be a fatality, an accident must happen first?
So it doesn't matter that the accidents that do happen are more deadly? As long as there are less over all?
Why can't we have less accidents and less death?
So, are you a little bit slow?