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Authoritarian central planning sucks...
Workers having shares in companies and or the means of production doesn't.
You hate it because it defeated the nazis or...?
No, I dislike all Authoritarian regimes. I dislike single party systems.
We're discussing systems of the past of course, not possible variations or was a new Socialism moght structure its self.
But the problem is that Capitalism isn't going down without a fight, and if there's a fight there will likely be an Authoritarian one party system after, that performs a period of white/red terror, that's difficult to avoid.
It's a hard problem for revolutionary forms of Socialism.
Living in WW2 Belarus would cure you from that centrist hyperidealist nonsense. Or maybe not, there would be statistically 1/3 chance nazis would murder you.
The one party system is going to perform white and red terrors?
There's always more than one side in a revolution, and there's always massacres.
Auth left and Auth right have had all of human history and they've blown it. Don't you think it's time for someone else to give it a go?
The political compass turned you into a fucking moron, dude.
The soviet economy was insane(ly good)!
https://youtu.be/Hcl3R-yARX8?si=Z2Us5pkG9a7FBPUw
Well sourced easily digestible video on it.
Its why they defeated the nazis, who had a 50-100 year industrialization lead when the USSR started doing a command economy. The USSR also ended up liberalizing, especially in its last decade, creating the circumstances for a coup that resulted in balkanization and massively decreased living standards.
This is counterfactual
I thought a massive international effort defeated the nazis, including strategic bombing, embargos and lend-lease. Weird.
The USSR killed 80-ish percent of the nazi troops, and suffered 26 million casualties, mostly civilians exterminated by the nazis. They were mainly responsible for the victory and suffered the heaviest losses, including a lot of the lower level communist organization whose absence lead to the bureaucratic centralization (that Stalin opposed heavily before his death) that let corruption gradually take over the project.
Yeah, when you organize your army based on politics and not on, you know, military capability, you end up sucking at war and need to make it up in numbers. You ignore intelligence of imminent invasion you let hundreds of thousands of troops get encircled and begging the Yankees for resources.
Consider not learning your ww2 history from pop culture
So, no argument at all? Just a downvote and an ad-hominem? I'm disappointed...
Why would I need to seriously argue against what is essentially tropes, including the asiatic hordes trope? Your argument speaks for itself.
Compare the size of the soviet army at the start of the war to the size of the French and German armies. Now compare the Soviet delaying actions to the invasion of France.
No idea what tropes you talking about, those are history book facts. Embarrassing, but facts.
Remind me how many French and British troops were bypassed and encircled during the invasion of France?
Remember that the combined forces in France were much larger and more mechanized than the soviet army during barbarossa, and were invaded by less troops
The truth or some warped version of "Stalin was not that bad" reality you expect?
Literally just look up the numbers on Wikipedia(or whatever other center-right source you consider credible) and stop embarrassing yourself.
Wikipedia literally quotes Soviet archives. If that is center right, I'm curious to know what is left.
Okay, then go find other sources for these numbers:
Number of axis troops invading France
Number of French and British commonwealth troops during the initial defense of France
Number of axis troops invading the Soviet Union
Number of Soviet troops during the initial defense of the Soviet Union
I suspect that anything right of the Soviet archives won't be good enough for you. And even those are embarrassing.
The point of this exercise is for you to find the numbers and experience a moment of self reflection. What I think of the credibility of the numbers doesn't matter.
You won't though. One has to wonder why?
I already did, first back in school and latest yesterday to check what sources the wiki used. Somehow the numbers haven't changed in all those years.
And you think the numerically inferior soviet troops -who did better than the larger more mechanized and better equipped French and British troops- while also fighting a larger better equipped force demonstrates....
"better" lol
Have you actually studied ww2? France fell in weeks. So yeah the Soviets did better.
The soviets lost more than half of the total population of France, so hard to call it better.
Yes, it is their fault the nazis viewed them as subhuman and exterminated them in a way they didn't do with the conquered French. /s
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrier_troops
They defeated the Nazis by throwing conscripts into a meat grinder regardless of whether they even had a weapon, and by threatening to shoot them if they tried to retreat.
That's the nature of Authoritarian regimes. Not very working class of them.
You are mistaking the movie enemy at the gates for a history lesson, or are absorbing myths that ultimately originate with that movie.. During particularly desperate times troops would have to split rifles during training. General order 227 created penal detachments for officers who kept ordering retreats without cause, and created blocking units to turn back retreating units. They weren't machine gunning conscripts in the back.
Also even if not one step back was as US propaganda claims, every step back allowed the nazis more population to exterminate or enslave. The Soviets lost 19 million civilians, exterminated by the nazis.
You live in a world of pure fantasy.
Cool feels. The facts are that GDP has grown more than 1000% (not a typo) in the 30 years post communism.
Again, fantasy.
Who calculated the GPD of a command-driven, non-capitalist state, and how did they do it? It’s incomparable using such a metric: apples & oranges.
And regardless, GDP is a garbage metric. All sorts of unproductive income is included, things that are not part of the real economy.
Finance Capitalism versus Industrial Capitalism: The Rentier Resurgence and Takeover
When the socialist states privatized what had been public—which was nearly everything—and sold them at fire sale prices to the neocolonial capitalists of the imperial core, that would have been included in the GPD as well. What did that get them but a new class of local oligarchs? Just bonkers.
If you compare the GDP of suddenly collapsed, suddenly capitalist states—that were being actively pillaged by the Global North—to their GDP 30 years later, of course line go up. But that’s a very different comparison to their situations pre-collapse.
Is any metric that's unfavorable immediately garbage? Life expectancy? Number of political prisoners? HDI?
Lots of Authoritarian one party economies are, Hitler's, China's, Ghengis Khan's, Ancient Rome.
You can really make leaps and bounds with forced labour and a Stalinist regime... But I don't want to live under such a system, nor would I automatically trust how it's applied.
Here's some photos of some gulag laborers digging the White Sea to Baltic canal for some extra bread and meat rations: https://allthatsinteresting.com/white-sea-baltic-canal
Insanely "good" economies are often created from poverty, serfdom, slavery, and forced labour. That's not how I'd define a "good" economy though.
Lol
God I wish ~~re~~education camps were a thing
Political prisoners are a thing.
Gulags were a thing, labor camps have been a thing, vocational education and training centers, have been a thing, north koreas camps have been a thing, siberian labor camps have been a thing, pol pots torture camps have been a thing.
Authoritarian one party systems tend to have political prisoners, and institutions, camps, or prisons where they're dealt with.
These are things the proletariat and lumpenproletariat (and other classes) get subjected too for political reasons, I'm saying I don't want that happening. That it's a bad thing.
You aren't saying anything except bringing up scary terms you heard. Conspiracies are a thing. War profiteers are a thing. El Chupacabra is a thing.
You're just talking shit without any specific accusations. Just vibes.
You're free to look up these various systems of political punishment. Just answering 'theyre conspiracy theories ' isn't a convincing argument.
You have to win people to your cause if you want your systems to win.
I didn't say they were conspiracies. I said conspiracies were a thing. Just like you didn't say shit about all the scary terms you threw around. I'm supposed to look up 'political prisoners' and then divine what your point is? You're fucking dumb.
Ha, this guy doesn't think one party authoritarian states have political prisoners.
Weird how the socialist command economies lead to a massive increase in literacy, life expectancy, women's rights, access to education, doctors per person, decreased infant and maternal mortality, I could go on.
Almost like there is a difference between a capitalist command economy like the nazis did and a socialist command economy. Wonder what the difference between those three word phrases are, hmmmmm 🤔🤔🤔
Just to note; Capitalism also has this problem of paying workers the minimum in order to transfer wealth to profit/owners.