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This is frustrating. She couldn't handle a primary run 5 years ago. Now the entire Party is just lining up as if she's unquestionably the greatest candidate the world has to offer.
Prior to this, the only Democrat less popular than her, was Biden.
Nobody knows what she'll actually do in office because she's only ever said or supported whatever will help her at the moment.
EDIT: Thank you all. I had a good time today debating, discussing, reading, even occasionally learning.
Some of you engaged well, I upvoted. Some of you didn't. I rarely downvote though, and never did here.
I appreciate you all, and hope you all have a good one.
Even Kamala Harris. I hope to see her succeed beyond all our expectations. Even if mine are quite low.
She isn’t on death’s door, she doesn’t want to jail people for pronouns, she supports a woman’s right to choose, the list goes on. The election is months away and it’s likely her vs trump.
Consider rolling up your sleeves and working on social and political causes to help see people and policies you like make it to the top. I have personally found it very fulfilling to volunteer at the local and state level in particular.
Love her or hate her, she is better than Trump in literally every way. The decision is obvious and complaining won’t put someone you like more on the ballot.
Is that really the best we can hope for? Or ask for? Someone who's better than Trump?
In July, of an election year, in the US? Yes, that's the best you get.
Make a time machine, convince Biden to drop out 8-12 months ago, then you can have your open primary season.
That's a plan, I can get behind.
But I would go to 5 years ago.
Why go 5 years when you could go back and ensure the convicted felon loses to Hilary.
That's a good point. And a better plan.
Got any actual suggestions, or are you only here to complain that any candidate isn't a 100% perfect match for everything you want in the world?
I thought you were going to say:
"Is that really the best we can hope for? 'Working on social and political causes to help see people and policies you like make it to the top'?"
And I was like "yeah, it is the best we can hope for".
That is what I'm asking for. Everyone else seems content with backing a "winner".
I don't know if you understand. People are donating and volunteering, for Kamala Harris. You don't want more participation, You just want people to support your personally chosen candidate (who remains nameless).
I haven't seen one I like this cycle. Neither major party has nominated one I really liked in 40 years. The Dems came close a couple times.
This sentiment is really impractical in a functional democracy of over 300 million people, if you can't find anyone in 20 candidates that have run over the past 40 years from the two major parties you were willing to vote for.
Your perfect candidate that you hold out for isn't going to be the perfect candidate for a lot of people. Part of the whole give and take is building consensus around most broadly acceptable candidates, rather than just taking your ball and going home when none of the viable candidates perfectly suite you.
Oh I voted in every election since I could. Just never for someone I believed in. It was only ever hope.
she was in a primary with biden in the center and about 15 other progressives on the left. she was always popular; it's just bernie occupied the left flank of the primary and everyone else was crumbs.
Biden couldn't handle a primary run in 2008, but he killed in 2020.
Times change. Circumstances change. People change. And if the enthusiasm that has come out over the past week, both from her and from the party base, is any indication, Harris in 2024 is in a much better place than she was in 2020.
Biden didn't kill it in 2020. Bernie won the first few states, so the DNC freaked out and pushed the other candidates to drop out and endorse Joe. After that, the media lined up to declare him the presumptive nominee. The DNC hates progressives.
Kamala was a better speaker than Joe in 2020. Her comments about being one of the black kids on the busses aimed at Biden was accurate and scathing. But she followed the party mandate and bowed out.
Why is everyone's memory so short about these things?
She's a far sight better than Trump or Biden.
Bernie won a couple states that never help determine the election. Then Biden won by a lot in swing states. If Bernie won swing states it would be different. He didn't. His appeal isn't and wasn't as good in the specific places the Presidency is won.
It sucks because I picked him in both primaries. But the reality is Biden had broader appeal where it mattered. Any Dem candidate is going get 170 EC votes along the coasts. It's between the coasts where the election is won. And Biden did better in all those places.
To my point, he was doing better until the others started to drop out. But that's all academic now. My opinion hardly matters, but I stand by my belief that the DNC hates progressive politics and would rather lose than support a populist progressive.
Pete won Iowa, Bernie won New Hampshire and Nevada. Everyone (6 total candidates) was still in for South Carolina which Biden dominated. Pete and Amy dropped out at that point. But Bloomberg joined and Warren was still in. Gabbard was too but we all know was a joke candidate.
Biden was against 4 options going into Super Tuesday. Biden won 10 of the 15 primaries on Super Tuesday. Came in 2nd for the couple he didn't win. After that is when Bloomberg got chased back out, and Warren dropped out realizing she was stripping votes from Bernie.
Bernie was ahead for all of 3 weeks. And at that point only 3 states were in. What truly happened in that time is a lot of media spin. Because they had nothing much to report on and kept belaboring over almost nothing of consequence. By the time my chance landed here in Illinois it was obvious Biden had it in the bag. Bernie dropped out himself only a couple weeks after.
Oh. Look. It's the exact message we all knew was coming. "Good thing we got rid of Biden, but now we have another terrible candidate."
Yes! Exactly!
All the Democrats seem capable of, are terrible presidential candates. Obama seemed like a great candate for a ... Change. But turned out to be quite mid.
You know, obviously I disagree with you. But I respect you for not deleting your comments and for continuing to engage earnestly with people who were upset by it. I understand your disappointment with not ever getting a president who really moves the ball forward.
Until a progressive candidate can get elected in the swing states or there is a massive shift in the Overton window, I don't think you're going to get what you want. I'd like the world to be a better place, too. Shit, depending on the next 4 years, it's likely I won't live to see a liberal Supreme Court again, let alone tear down the corporate capture of our government.
Kamala has proven she can inspire people and that she can win. And I said before Biden even stepped down, if he goes, it has to be her or we risk losing black voters whom we can't win without. Now she's bringing them in droves. And the more registered Democrats, the greater our chances of really moving the country left in a meaningful way. She's the right choice, whether she's the best choice or not.
Anyway, be well.
You know who else couldn't handle a primary run (twice) before they were elected president? Joe Biden.
Yah. I don't know why anyone thought he was a good option either.
And yet he won despite you not knowing why.
Is winning the only hurdle? That's so depressing.
When it comes to stopping Project 2025? Yes, that is the only hurdle. Work on the rest after that.
That's not something we'll ever "stop". That's an ongoing eternal fight. And you don't win by only playing defense. You need to try to score also.
We will never stop a specific agenda that has been laid out in great detail in a plan Americans are souring to the more they hear about it?
The sounds like what some people told me about Biden in 2020. Why vote for him? He's the same as Trump.
Except he isn't. By most measures.
Who said that? Did I? I never said any of that. Read my previous comment again.
Your previous comment:
My response:
Then I told you a different claim that your comment sounded like.
So yes, you did say that it is not something that we will never stop.
Did the agenda get stopped? Project 2025 exists. So the right wing religous agenda is ongoing, is it not?
What a strange question. The agenda didn't get stopped because the election hasn't happened yet. Which is why they need to be beaten first so it can be stopped.
You do understand that it's called "Project 2025" because they want to implement it in 2025, right?
Project 2025 exists because electing Biden didnt stop anything. P25 is simply the latest label for the same agenda that's been going on since forever. That's what never ends.
The conservative religious right has waxed and waned for millennia. But it never stops.
You're missing the forest to the trees.
Okay, well then I guess we should give up. You're right, don't vote for Harris. She doesn't pass the purity test. Let Trump win.
I never had a chance to vote for her. I was never offered any other options. That's what my first comment was all about.
Did you canvass for anyone else to challenge Biden in a primary?
Would there have been a debate if I had?
Possibly. But you clearly didn't canvass. If you're not going to put in the work to canvass for another candidate, it's pretty silly to complain that you weren't given a choice.
Candidates don't get on ballots by magic. It takes work.
No they wouldn't. The party leaders were all in on Biden until 3 weeks ago. The last thing they want is for the public to choose "their" candate.
That's a great excuse for never trying, isn't it? "They don't want us to do it."
This is a lot of work to justify doing and contributing nothing.