this post was submitted on 14 Jul 2024
-23 points (38.4% liked)
US Authoritarianism
717 readers
211 users here now
Hello, I am researching American crimes against humanity. . This space so far has been most strongly for memes, and that's fine.
There's other groups and you are welcome to add to them. USAuthoritarianism Linktree
See Also, my website. USAuthoritarianism.com be advised at time of writing it is basically just a donate link
Cool People: [email protected]
founded 6 months ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Well, if Biden and Trump are both fascists, I think many people would still argue that Biden is the less dangerous fascist. It really doesn't change their main reason for voting for him, and that is that he is the least bad option.
I've said for years now that the Democrats and the Republicans are like a good cop, bad cop team. They both might be on the same side, and they both might be against you, but I think it's understandable why people would prefer to deal with the good cop. It's a harm reduction measure. The bad cop will almost certainly do more harm than the good cop.
For whom?
No it isn't. That's the whole point of the "good cop/bad cop" routine - it's to get you to "co-operate."
I think for the majority of people.
Yes, I know. Unlike most people who are subjected to the good cop, bad cop technique, we are allowed to vote for one or the other. I think it makes sense why most people would want to vote for the good cop.
So... basically white liberals that wants everything to continue as normal as long as the political establishment remains quiet about it?
How does that change anything?
It's one thing to not realize it's a "good cop/bad cop" routine - it's quite another to realize what it is and then still fall for it by pretending that the (supposed) "good cop" isn't a cop.
Yes, white liberals. Also others. Like I said, I think the majority of people.
It doesn't. It's not meant to. It's not a revolutionary action, it's a harm reduction measure, like I said.
I'm not falling for anything or pretending. I know I'm being subjected to the good cop, bad cop routine, I know the good cop is a cop, I know he is not my friend, I know he is against me. I have been given very few options and I'm choosing the least bad.
What white liberals say is "good" for them is diametrically opposed to what is good for everybody else. I don't think Palestinians (and the majority of the world's people whose sympathy has now decisively swung their way) believe that a "quieter" genocide (which is what white liberals want) would be "good" for them, for instance.
There's a fine line between harm reduction and appeasement.
Just a suggestion... but perhaps it's time you start to think critically about the people and institutions "giving" you these (so-called) "options?"
It might not sound like much - but everything has to start somewhere.
What makes you think a Trump presidency would be better for Palestinians?
I have thought critically about it. Was thinking critically about these things supposed to reveal some new avenue to me that I hadn't considered?
No, it will be pretty much exactly the same - caveat being that Trump is politically incompetent at this game, which could (and that's a pretty risky "could") prove better for the Palestinian resistance in the long run. But that is neither here nor there and perfectly impossible to predict - the only thing we can predict is an escalation of US foreign policy (for Israel, of course), and that will remain the exact same whether under Trump or Biden.
Of course... if Biden (somehow) manages to win in November white liberals in the US will conveniently forget about Gaza - something that won't happen under Trump.
So have you figured out why (so-called) "liberal democracy" only manages to be about as "democratic" as "social darwinism" is Darwinist?
You keep telling me what won't work or what won't change anything, now tell me what will. You're implying there's some course of action I haven't considered. Well, what is it? You want to save Palestinian lives, ok, how?
So, just to be clear... you have never considered any other form of political action other than voting for a rich guy in an over-priced suit?
Well, that's not really what I was saying. Sure, I have considered many different forms of political action. My question, really, and I should have clarified this better, is: what other course of political action is available to me, here, in the US, today? Protesting? Maybe I'm wrong, but that doesn't seem to accomplish much of anything. Joining some political advocacy group? Trying to lobby politicians? I'm sorry, but, all of those seem pretty pointless to me.
No arguments from me there - the liberal brand of protesting is designed to accomplish absolutely nothing. That's why it's the only form of protest that is legal.
But then again... there are forms of protesting that aren't liberal-approved - and have proved very effective.
As pointless as kicking the fascism can four years down the road? that's literally your best-case scenario come November - according to liberal-approved politicians and their bootlicker media, anyway.
I'm not telling you not to vote - you should vote. Vote for that sack of lying shit called Biden (or whatever sack of lying shit they're going to replace him with) because they aren't giving you a choice.
The fact that the liberals aren't giving you a choice means the liberals lied to you - you don't live in a democratic society and you never have. But that also means you're not bound to only consider liberal-approved politics, are you?
Uh, yeah. I am literally bound. We all are, constrained by laws and the state. Try to go outside those bounds and you end up in prison, or dead. And if you die, you won't be a martyr, you'll just be some fool who fucked around and found out.
Well duh... why did you think those laws exist? Did you really think those fascist goon squads you call "police" that you also fund with your taxes actually exist to "protect" you?
Gee... how much blatant evidence do you need shoved in your face before you actually believe what it is that you are seeing?
Clyde, if it wasn't for people willing to break the law you wouldn't even know what a week-end is.
What makes you think I don't believe what I'm seeing? I see it, I believe it.
Well, be my guest. I'm not going to break the law because it seems like a high risk, low reward option. I will almost certainly be fined or jailed, and I don't see how any meaningful change will come about as a result of it.
If you are unwilling to risk anything for change... fine. But be honest about it - liberals, like you, will go along with literally anything if not doing so incurs any kind of risk or penalty. And the people who actually need and want change has absolutely nothing to gain from trusting you or your liberal politics.
I don't blame them for not trusting the politics. I don't trust the politics either. I don't think change is possible inside the political system and I don't think it's possible outside the political system, either. I don't think change is possible. I think any attempt at change is a futile effort.
I wish the CIA and the FBI believed that - if they did, they wouldn't be spending billions every year preventing change outside of the political system.
What do you want him to do? Insight a revolution? Voting for the bad, but marginally less bad option is better than nothing.
"Lesser evilism" is hitting rock bottom, Clyde - and so is liberalism itself. That is perfectly apparent - liberals refusing to believe it is irrelevant. "Voting harder" will not stop that, and the chances of voting even slowing it down was a decent argument in 2020, but not after liberalism showed the entire planet it's true hand in a little place called Gaza.
Do you have the power or the know-how to do that, perhaps? No? Then I guess the answer is no, isn't it?
I will tell you what I tell every liberal that demands convenient solutions as soon as an actual leftist points out the gigantic gaping holes in the liberal world-view - start by doing the work of actually understanding how you got into this mess in the first place.
It's not much, but it's a start. And it's a shit-ton more politically pro-active than simply voting for some guy in an expensive suit.
better question, for who would Trump be less dangerous?
and yes, that's the question, Trump or Biden, there is no 3ed option in America
The vast majority of people on the planet, actually. Trump is incompetent at US foreign policy - ie, he is incompetent at imperialism. The US position in the middle-east, for instance, weakened dramatically under Trump. This is a good thing, overall.
So I take it you are willing to admit that you don't exist in a democratic society?
ah, I see where your misconceptions lie, you live in lala land, you don't actually care, you have heard tankie shit and decided to chug until the bottle is empty, you claim trump is bad at imperialism because what? he was friends with the great people's republic of North Korea? no, looking at trumps track records he was much more violent and brutal in his foreign policy, he aided and supported the rise of governments that make American imperialism seem benign by comparison.
and no, while there are only 2 realistic options in the American political race for president, there are a ton of ways you could actually get involved to make a difference.
then again, please enlighten me as to the post Stalinist democracies in the red fascist nations that you tankies all can't stop boot licking for.
Just admit that you are perfectly fine with the US slaughtering brown people, liberal - as long as the blood doesn't stain the white picket fences in your pristine suburbs.
Then you don't have to go around accusing people using terms you don't know the meaning of, okay?
Let me just grab the magic wand of making the majority of American voters not support Israel real quick, oh wait, that doesn't exist now does it. along with the magic spell of remove the fascist ethno-theocrats from the Israeli government, oh wait, that ALSO doesn't exist.
Fact is, no matter what you, or I vote, it's not going to stop the IDF from slaughtering civilians in Gaza, but one is just tacitly accepting it, the other is demanding the IDF "finish them".
And yes, I know what tankies are, and I know what tankie talking point sound like (because it would literally kill you to use non-tankie vernacular), I also know that like all tankies out there, you have fundamentally blinded yourself to the actions of despotic brutal dictators because you have bought into the idea that the USA is the worlds sole antagonist, the only nation with agency (for some reason) and that anything bad you hear/see about China and Russia must be anti-communist imperialist propaganda, a stance only made worse by the fact that both china and Russia are currently engaging in a literal Colonial conquest of Africa/Middle East
That's really the only thing you liberals are politically competent at, aren't you?
I have to say... you're the first liberal on here that has actually had the backbone to admit it - I guess that's... something.
No you don't, liberal. The fact that you cannot even tell the difference between an anarchist and a Marxist-Lenninist tells me that your competence in this area is pretty much at Average Liberal Standard.
And I trust that I don't have to explain to you how low a bar that actually is?