this post was submitted on 28 Feb 2024
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[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I mean, the Democrats have been screwing the actually Left for decades now so...

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (4 children)

If y'all actually voted, Democrats would care about you more. The Left is fickle and the DNC knows it.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

The left actually demands politicians earn their vote. Politics isn't supposed to be a team sport in the US. The entire reason we have elections so often is to make sure the voters approve of their representatives. That means voting out of team loyalty is a subversion of the system. And the charge of being fickle and lazy is undemocratic propaganda.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Democracy is about compromise. By refusing to compromise you're ceding power to the worst option.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Compromise requires both sides. And supplying a genocide isn't compromise.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

"Not genocide" is not an option.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

It is. Biden can stop providing arms to Israel.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

And how are you gonna make him do that?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago

Voting uncommitted. Showing force. If Biden wants votes, he needs to not commit genocide.

I'll still vote for him most likely, even if he is a disgusting warmonger, because I know Trump is worse. However, I want him to see the magnitude of hatred the Americans he thought he could rely on for votes have for him and his genocidal antics.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The issue is the left is simply not large enough to win a primary. The reason Bernie wasn't nominated is simple: not enough votes.

Our system is one of coalition building. You either join the least bad coalition for your interests or you have no influence at all.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago

the left is simply not large enough to win a primary

Quite a bit of what left-leaning voters advocate for is initially very popular. Medicare-for-All has a broad base of support. Rent control is very popular. Increasing Social Security payouts is an untapped political goldmine. The anti-war movement remains a large and largely neglected constituency.

What left-leaning candidates traditionally lack isn't popularity, but money. What made Sanders such a powerful primary opponent in 2016 and 2020 was his prodigious fundraising abilities. He wasn't wildly out of line with Mike Gravel or Ralph Nader on the issues, but he commanded 100x their war chests thanks to the outpouring of social media coordinated campaign funding.

Compared to guys like Steve Forbes or Ron Paul or Michael Bloomberg - who also brought enormous volumes of cash to the table - Sanders was able to offer a platform constituents in his own party were quick and eager to rally around.

Our system is one of coalition building.

A coalition requires seats at the table. Which leftists are getting a seat at the Biden table? Not Rashida Talib. Not Cori Bush. Not even Elizabeth fucking Warren.

Coalitions imply equity. What Democrats are demanding isn't a coalition, its a coronation. Biden wants his voters to bend the knee. (Trump, too). And the folks who buck his commandments aren't enticed back into the fold with concessions. They're treated as pariahs and scapegoats and fifth columnists, to explain his plummeting poll numbers.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

If y’all actually voted

Didn't Bernie Sanders win the California primary in 2020? Seems like he'd need a lot of leftist voters to pull that off.

The Left is fickle

Once bitten, twice shy

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Meanwhile, on the Right: "once bitten, BITE HARDER". So they win elections while you run away.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

So they win elections

There's a couple of levels to this. On one level, I think conservatives do - in fact - deliver some promises. If you like twelve lane highways and ranch style suburban homes and ground beef that's cheaper by the pound than broccoli? Good news. When Republicans take office, you can consistently bank on getting a couple hundred dollars worth of tax cuts, as part of their multi-billion dollar tax cut package. If you're in a religious organization the party favors, you can expect all sorts of kickbacks via Faith Based Initiatives and ~~Parochial~~ Charter School Vouchers. If you're a bigot, your governor will inflict all sorts of misery on minorities and the LGBT community. Police will parade through the streets in giant military convoys, showing off all their latest gear paid for with inflated budgets.

On another level, I think they get a certain amount of psychic agony inflicted on them while Democrats are in office. Right-wing news functionally terrorizes their own viewers until their guys win, and this creates a kind of pavlovian response. If you don't want to see wave after wave of disturbing images on the TV, elect Republicans.

I think Democrats are mastering the latter, while neglecting the former. And that's why you've got folks on Lemmy shitting themselves in horror over a future Trump administration, without really having anything tangible to look forward to under a second Biden term.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Democrats deliver plenty but messaging is awful. Biden has canceled $138 billion in student loan debt. Billion. That's with him using whatever executive resources he can after Supreme Court obstruction. Where's the news articles on that? You see people on this very site saying he promised to forgive student loans and then abandoned that promise (while gleefully laughing and twirling his moustache, because he just loves being evil).

Democrats deliver a lot more than Republicans. Republicans scuttled their own border security deal because they didn't want to give Dems a win.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Biden has canceled $138 billion in student loan debt.

Biden is administering a policy going back to the Reagan Era of 20-year sunsets on student loan debts. The new debts he's cancelled are in the billions, not the hundreds-of-billions. And this, in a pool of over $1.6T. I know a few people carrying student debts. None of them are applauding Biden right now. None of them are seeing their debts cancelled.

Democrats deliver a lot more than Republicans.

Democrats will tell you they delivered $800B in Medicare spending in 2023, when they just signed bills to cut physician pay by 2%/year. They publish walls of tiny-text claiming credit for everything from the Civil Rights Act to the latest private uptick in new clean energy infrastructure and get angry when you notice how the former has been gutted and the latter has nothing to do with their latest round of legislative/executive policies.

Trump put his fucking name on the stimulus checks he sent out in 2020.

Biden put his name on sunsets to the Child Tax Credit three years later, with some campaign promises to renew them (if Dems can retake the House AND the Senate AND Joe Manchin/Kristen Sinema don't block anything) maybe some time in 2025.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

See, this is where a republican would go "fake news" and just continue crowing about how awesome his party is.

A low info leftist will take what you say at face value and hate Biden.

A normal liberal will say I'm sure that's incorrect or misleading, because I know your agenda and you fucks always lie, but I have a real job so I can't get bogged down in it right now.

A Biden stan will say nothing, because they don't exist because Democrats don't work like that.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago

A Biden stan will say nothing, because they don’t exist

MSNBC is full of them.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

That's bullshit. Leftists vote, the problem is that liberals aren't leftists and only care about serving Capital.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

So there's more liberals than leftists. That's democracy.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Your point is wrong, though. Leftists voting for dems will only encourage more liberal policy, not leftist policy. You're advocating for leftists voting third party and spoiling their vote.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I'm advocating for leftists voting for the most left Dem they can get in any given race. Not for splitting the vote.

Liberal is better than fascist, correct?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The most "left" dem is right wing and wants to implement right wing solutions. The dems are not left.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Dems are more left than the literal nazis on the right wing.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Being less right does not mean more left, because politics are not actually axial. Being less right wing does not necessarily mean you're more Socialist.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

So you're just claiming that whatever you believe, at the intensity you believe, is left wing, and all other things are not.

Stupid as hell, but whatever.

The point of my comment was liberals are not as bad as actual literal nazis. Do you disagree?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

No, I'm not claiming that, lol. Don't put words in my mouth, especially if you're acknowledging that it's stupid as hell. It's both not what I said, and is condescending as fuck.

Left wing refers to Socialism, ie worker ownership of the means of production. Could be via Democratic Socialism, Communism, Anarchism, Synicalism, whatever. Liberalism isn't in that picture, because it's focused on Capitalism.

Liberals aren't as bad as Nazis, which is what you should've said, instead of saying that liberals are more left wing than Nazis. That doesn't make any sense, liberals aren't any more Socialist, they just aren't as fascist, so they are less extreme Capitalists.

Simple.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Liberals aren’t as bad as Nazis

Great. I'm gonna ignore all the other red herrings and drill down on this.

When your options are "bad" and "less bad", shouldn't you vote for "less bad"?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Yes, I never insinuated otherwise. However, your point this entire time is that this should move America to the left, and that leftists should be happy with that, which is wrong in both cases.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Well I disagree with your weird take that there's not a spectrum from right wing to centrist to liberal to "leftist", so the terminology is different. In your weird non axial political verbiage, I would say "this should move America farther away from the right, and that leftists should be happy with that."

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

It moves America further from fascism, but not closer to Socialism. Given that the goal of leftists is both anticapitalism and pro-socialism, failing to include the pro-socialist aspect means it's never going to be good for leftists, just not as bad, thus its on the liberals to actively throw the leftists a bone, rather than being not as evil.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

it’s never going to be good for leftists, just not as bad

It's pretty much a moral requirement when given a binary choice to choose the less bad option.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago

Sure, but you've been working off false reasoning, and the point is that Biden has a responsibility to appeal to leftists if he wishes to garner more of their votes. You're blaming voters for bad policy by Biden, which doesn't make sense.