this post was submitted on 07 Jul 2024

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Political unity (slrpnk.net)

submitted 4 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 109 points 4 months ago (1 children)

If you're willing to do "whatever it takes" including instituting fascism, you're a fascist.

[+] [email protected] -26 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

A socialist revolution by definition cannot be fascist, fascism is a far right movement and a socialist revolution is far left movement they both have authoritarian aspects, but are polar opposites as far as the goals of each movement. Socialism is for the benefit of all, fascism is for the benefit of the few.

Also I'm not an accelerationist and am voting for Biden, there is no where near enough class conciousness in the States for a Prolitariat Revolution to occur, but once that critical tipping point is reached I think Landlords and Billionaires should get the wall if they refuse to peacefully give up their hordes of wealth and property for the common good and that the revolution should be defended by any means necessary.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Fine, I will grant you, you aren't fascists. Fascists hate people and want to kill them.

Tankies love "the revolution" more than the people they want to benefit. You may not see it as breaking a few eggs to make an omelette, but when you sit out an election where the fascists have a better than coin flip odds of seizing power, you are effectively letting them do that. And if you're willing to let trans people die in camps for... what was it? "Enough class consciousness to build" then... well, fuck you and your revolution.

Like, also this reveals your total all encompassing privilege. Because look dude, if the fascists are putting trans people and immigrants into camps, do you really think they will spare you? Or do you just think you're white enough that you'll go under the radar until your "revolution" happens?

Also, fuck any revolution that involves taking up the tools and institutions of power. Those need to be ground to dust

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Tankies are like NRA lunatics that dream with the chance to shoot somebody, but are scared to try alone.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 4 months ago (3 children)

I'm not sure about that; I think a lot of radicalizing discourse of late comes from the same place. Life under late stage capitalism is hard, and people are not sure why, nor can they articulate it. And they can tell it's getting worse. Its a rife breeding ground for fascists, but when you hit leftist spaces, the tankies have the biggest net. You'll be greeted by r/socialism, and find yourself in its web of subs. You might get pulled in by a Gravel Institute video (especially since you might be aware of Prager U and are interested in a video from the other end). It might be Chapo Trap House. And a lot of entry points into Tankie spaces are extremely compelling. For a lot of people, it will be the first anti Imperial talking points they will ever hear, with no liberal "but this is the greatest nation" filter.

I think this content is actually good and useful. The USA is guilty of myriad atrocities that its citizenry doesn't know about, or the full depth, or doesn't think about in order to get through their daily life.

But then after you get past that, the Tankie reveals himself to be "Anti Nato" without an cohesive political or moral position, in a very "politics as a team sport" kind of way. Russia is a moderately sized challenger to NATO, so they love it. It is also a successor state to a Red Empire. Ukraine is NATO making overtures to NATO, so they don't like it. Israel is an imperialist NATO outpost, and they are committing a genocide, so of course they don't like it, but so many tankies have shown their whole ass diving into Antisemitism, making fun of Jewish names, or Jewish influence on policy, that Ive exited most of the tankie spaces I was still in. Antizionism is not antisemitism, and they are antisemites.

But compare that to China, where they deny a genocide because it is being perpetrated by the largest challenger to NATO and still nominally communist state in the world, and you have your answer.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago

But compare that to China, where they deny a genocide because it is being perpetrated by the largest challenger to NATO and still nominally communist state in the world, and you have your answer.

In fairness most people deny the genocide claims made by the anti=China think-tanks.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

the Tankie reveals himself to be “Anti Nato” without an cohesive political or moral position

Opposition to NATO is a cohesive political position. We're happy to explain our views when people are willing to hear us out, generally though, people just want to put nonsense into our mouths and then call us nonsensical.

but so many tankies have shown their whole ass diving into Antisemitism, making fun of Jewish names, or Jewish influence on policy, that Ive exited most of the tankie spaces I was still in. Antizionism is not antisemitism, and they are antisemites.

As usual about accusations towards tankies, there's no link. Show your receipts or stop making stuff up.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

"Opposition to NATO is a cohesive political position. We're happy to explain our views when people are willing to hear us out, generally though, people just want to put nonsense into our mouths and then call us nonsensical."

Why are you opposed to NATO?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 4 months ago

Because NATO defends a system of neocolonialism that's responsible for the bulk of global poverty.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

I'm not going to try to read on your ideology, but I think you're missing why people dislike tankies.

It's not that they are against NATO, Israel, US, Ukraine... Or that they support Russia, China...

The problems are two:

Absolute belief that the world is black and white, and that their side is a paragon of virtue and quality of life, and human rights... Any and all criticism is "western propaganda". This means anything they can't deny is the others side fault "Zelensky is to blame for defending" and "Israel is to blame for attacking".
Beyond just "excusing" the atrocities, they love them. Anybody who opposes them is a valid target. They might rationalize it in some cases, but in the end there are no innocent civilians unless they support them.

Edit: I've seem to have hurt some tankies feelings. Good.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

1 is just your lack of reading/knowledge. 2 is simply describing war/conflict in general (e.g. dronies don't see innocent civilians among their enemies)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

[–] [email protected] -1 points 4 months ago

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