this post was submitted on 05 Oct 2023
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I quite agree with you. I think tankies are quite misguided. They have good intentions, but not so great conclusions. I don't mind engaging with them, and they mostly tend to be in good faith.
I wouldn't describe it as toxic, and it's weird some views in that regards. Many are probably engaging with people that just quit engaging in reddit.
“Tankies” are just those with a view based in reality and not ethereal ideas of “rights for me but not for thee”
You misunderstand my point.
Communists who believe in sharing the wealth amongst the workers, fair enough.
People who will obsess about Stalin and China, and justify atrocities, not so good.
When I say tankies, I do not mean communists.
So you are against communists
So you're saying communists aren't Marxists? They're just folk who are in a weird cult of personality and love China and Russia including the capitalist elements of it? For someone from lemmygrad, I'm quite surprised...
If you are against “tankies” then you are agaisnt communists
No, I'm all for workers gaining their fair share of the proceeds of their wealth. I just don't believe you need to nosh off dictators because you're keen on the writings of Marx. Stalin != Marx.
There is very little virtue or moral high-ground in celebrating those who are guilty of atrocities.
In what argument do you have that Stalin was not simply moving forward and carrying into reality Marx’s theories. All of Stalin’s writings indicate a deep understanding and usage of dialects and his actions reflect Marx’s writings fully as well when it comes to the socialist. And Engel’s writings are clear from what he wrote in Anti-Durhing
Did the Gulag exist, and how do you feel that sits in with human decency and furthering the rights of workers?
He might write a lot, but we know politicians say a lot. What actions were taken and what happened under his watch is another thing entirely.
His decision to get Trotsky killed off, was that furthering the cause of workers?
Gulags were where criminals were. Are we to let them run around society?
Fair enough but his actions do reflect what he wrtoe
Trotsky was also working agaisnt the USSR and needed taken down as he was an enemy of working class liberation.
Petty criminals in some cases. Potentially some who were starving and stole to eat. Do societies run in the interests of working people punish those people for struggling or focus on rehabilitation where it is possible? Push them into force work camps where a very significant number die. Is trying to eat a death penalty now?
Stalin ain't that saint you think he was.
Was Trotsky working against the USSR? He was actively involved under Lenin, but when Stalin wanted to grasp power, he became a problem. Do you think Lenin was wrong and Stalin was right?
It feels very much like you're in a Stalin shaped cult of personality, which is ultimately was what his rule of the USSR was, not some glory day communist rule poster child. If you really want to persuade people that communism is better. Evangelising a dictator isn't going to help the case of furthering Marxist philosophy.
Death rates in Gulag were incredibly low outside of war time in WW2. The Gulags functioned as rehabilitation. They worked but were rehabilitated in them. There aren’t really cases of your made up idea happening
Trotsky worked for the dissolution of the USSR when it couldn’t be his personal project. He only worked with Lenin for personal gain and was an opportunist. When the country didn’t bow to his will he wanted to destroy the USSR.