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this post was submitted on 30 Jun 2024
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Work Reform
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A place to discuss positive changes that can make work more equitable, and to vent about current practices. We are NOT against work; we just want the fruits of our labor to be recognized better.
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- All workers must be paid a living wage for their labor.
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It’s not as much as it seems…
The wage is only “for time spent traveling to pick up riders, and transporting them to their destination”.
No pay for driving back to the pickup area.
No pay for waiting when there are no fares.
It’s a per-minute wage, and only for certain minutes.
That sounds reasonable and still a massive upgrade for drivers.
If you wait 10 minutes for a fare… give a 20-minute ride to some suburban house… and then drive 20 minutes back to the city…
your pay would be $10.83 (with this new deal).
…that’s very different from $32.50 per hour.
Does an airline baggage-handler only get paid for the “specific minutes” when he is lifting luggage?
Does a cashier only get paid for “specific minutes” when there are customers in her line?
The original goal of this lawsuit was to classify drivers as employees under state law…
And that goal was ignored completely.
What's actually tragic is similar things like this do happen in the air industry
Flight attendants for example are often paid only for hours on the plane. All the time getting to the planes through security screenings doesn't count. All the work they do at the gate before and after doesn't count. It's only hours in the plane.
Don't give them any ideas. If they could pay luggage people only during times lifting luggage they would. They just don't know how to yet
I mean in Denver going from the airport or across the city is 20-40 minutes airport can be an hour at times and I live in the city
But why wouldn't you try and pick up a fare before driving 20 minutes back to the city?
I'm not arguing that this is a good deal or met whatever goal. I'm just saying it's an upgrade. Also, as a former uber driver, there are strategies to make the best use of your time. If this new wage applied to my location I would buy a car and make a killing. That said, I'm in the minority that prefers to run their own business rather than be an employee so if I have to be a wage slave again then no thanks.
Okay...
Give me the math of how this new wage would help you “make a killing”.
Keep in mind that this wage merely sets a floor for the specific-minutes when you have a fare.
Both can be true! There's a reason I quit that shit years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/SolidDriver
I’m waiting for the math... Support your claim that you would “make a killing”.
I don’t see how you would...
The most you could possibly make would be $32.50 in an hour... (and that’s ONLY if you had a fare for ALL 60 minutes of an hour... and somehow still made less than $32.50 from those fares).
...And you'd be driving your own car and burning gas for that whole hour...
So show me (with math) how you’d be “making a killing”.
No. I'm not wasting any more time with you. Watch the videos if you want.
What you're talking about is "waiting to be engaged" versus "engaged to wait."
The drivers are not on set schedules and have no obligation to the company except for the time between accepting a fare and dropping them off. If the drivers were required to return to a staging area and wait for a call the they'd need compensation. But they're not. They can do whatever they want at that point.
When I worked retail I wasn't paid for the time between my shift's end and the next one beginning, but that's what you're arguing for in this case.
What else do you imagine they're doing, though?
I mean, Uber has constructed a model where "waiting for your next fare" and "going home to your partner" look the same in a spreadsheet, and that then becomes the justification for not paying them. It's sleight of hand.
The central feature of their business IS having drivers WAITING when a ride is requested.
So yes - it would be fair if they included some “waiting time” for each ride (maybe up to 15 minutes of actual waiting time).
These apps ONLY have value if there are drivers WAITING when a ride is requested, so drivers should be paid for that.
My Dad used to be a hot-shot delivery driver.
He didn't sit around waiting for a job. He'd go about his business and when his phone pinged he'd decide in the moment if he wanted to do the job.
Sometimes we'd be watching TV and his phone would ping and he'd get up to leave. Sometimes he wasn't interested and he'd let someone else get it.
The issue with Uber, Lyft, etc isn't that they treat their drivers as contractors. People who have they option of when, where, and whether to work and are paid per task aren't employees. The problem is the pay is terrible for what they're doing.
That's pretty typical, honestly. When working regular jobs, I've been paid one way, and not paid for time not working. The term is "waiting to engage", versus "engaged to wait". That is, if they want me to sit around to be available at a moment's notice, they pay me for that time. If I can go off and do other stuff and be vaguely available with whatever delay, then I don't get paid, because I'm not working and I'm not losing any of my own time.
I don't really think Uber should pay for time back directly, but they should definitely increase the cost of longer runs, especially to lower-volume areas where the driver might not have a fare in the other direction. (The driver is also not required to take any particular fare at all, so if they feel they'd lose money on it, they shouldn't take it.)
Honestly, you could make a strong argument that drivers are indeed independent contractors under US labor law. However, if the court has found that they should qualify for more pay and benefits, I'm certainly not going to argue that it should be taken away. In fact I'm going to celebrate it.