this post was submitted on 19 Apr 2024
134 points (89.4% liked)
Asklemmy
44149 readers
738 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
Search asklemmy π
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- [email protected]: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_[email protected]~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Capitalist realism. Human society has always been able to solve its problems. The issue is capitalism β our current society β can't solve the problems it created like massive wars, hunger, regular economic crisis, and global warming.
Capitalism hasn't existed forever, and it won't exist in the future. Our civilization will solve the problem of capitalism by seeing to its abolition.
Capitalism hasn't existed forever, it literally started in the late 1700s during a period called The Industrial revolution, when factory machining started the first cottage industries that pushed out previous modes of hand crafting.
At that point, when machines and cottages to hold them started to be required for mass production and hence competition in the market (pushing out hand crafting as a competitor) CAPITAL became a requirement of mass wealth accumulation... because one needed large sums of Capital to buy the machinery, rent the building, and hire and train the workers to exploit. So it became the limited province of the already well off to do.
That's when Capitalism was born, and why it's named CAPITAL-ism. Because it has Capital requirements if you want to join the Capitalist class. It was created in the British Industrial Revolution.
That you're unaware of this change in the mode of production and what it represents, and believe that "oh Capital has just existed forever" is what some Marxists refer to as being in a state of "false consciousness".
The system wasn't always this way, and doesn't have to necessarily be this way (eg. Marx offered the model of workers owning the machinery or "means of production" as his alternative, and there are likely others). Capitalism is a product of a technological "change of epoch" of the "mode of production."
...and it's defined the age we live in, and how we think. Which is what the later Frankfurt School neo-marxists discuss.
P.S. It's also worth noting that the British Industrial Revolution, The French Revolution, and the American Revolution all overlap in time periods. Live was very different before the late 1700s.
Are you referring to some pre-capitalism economic systems?
Like Feudalism? Greco-Roman slave-based economies? Tribal subsistence economies? Mesopotamian barter-based economies? Ancient Indian caste-based economies?
Seriously, which system are you pointing to that holds answers? I'm not against your position, I just can't imagine what you mean.
Yes. The person with the hammer and sickle handle, who moderates Leftypedia, thinks we should retvrn to a caste system. You nailed it. Your question is definitely in good faith.
Communism is not pre-capitalistic.
Wow. I didn't know that. I just, uh, you're telling me now for the first time. I'm actually sad to hear that. I am sad to hear that. Thank you very much.
But... you sarcastically implied the answer to the question "what pre-capitalistic system are you referring to" is communism. I can't get a read on you unless you're just very confused, bro.
The answer to the question is, "None," because it's a stupid question.
It's like if somebody said they hate cars, and we can do without them. Then some stupid asshole said, "I see. Should we return to the horse and buggy? Perhaps the rickshaw? Chariots, perhaps? Maybe a world where kings are carried on a throne upon the shoulders of slaves? Or maybe just piggyback rides? Kindly ignore the existence of trains and bicycles. Thanks!"
I reject the premise of the question, because the question isn't asked in good faith, and is fucking stupid.
As you wish -- and I agree with you -- but you must admit that sarcastically implying the answer is communism isn't conducive to your position.
Well, kudos to your infinite patience for stupid dicks JusT asKINg QUesTioNs. Mine ran out ages ago. So now I'm just mean about it.
We're all there sometimes. Best of luck, internet stranger.
I don't know where you're getting all that information, because I'm on mobile and I don't see any of that.
We're not looking to return to anything, we're hoping to finally win the fight against greedy psychopaths
Capitalistic Socialism seems the most successful offshoot of Capitalism. Pure Capitalism is killing its social networks, and the fabric of that systemβs societies is falling apart.
It was just the statement that "human society has always been able to solve it's problems" followed by a condemnation of capitalism. So I assumed there was some prior system that worked better for solving problems.
I guess they say Mussolini made the trains run on time. And Egypt's slave economy was stable for thousands of years.
It's like I said, I can't see a prior example that is not meaner and uglier than capitalism, or at least as mean and ugly.
Capitalistic Socialism may indeed be a better path for the future. But I didn't think it could be the original poster's intent.
Oh no. Now we've done it.
apparently "egypts slave economy" is largely debunked. they had slaves like every other stone age culture, but their economy (and pyramid building) relied largely on paid labor
And of all the ones there, that one I pulled out of my ass. Thank you.
For the records, saying that capitalism is temporary does not imply OP desires reverting to a previously existing economic system either, so the egypt thing was a non-sequitor anyways
You're joking, right?
No?
I'd diagnose the problem similarly to the person you replied to and I don't think I'd feel compelled to offer a specific remedy either.
People have been experimenting with economies and societies for thousands of years and we are in a relatively new money/power/control stuck spot right now. I'm sure there's been a system in history that would work much better than what we've got, but I just read recreationally so I dunno what it is and just because something worked 1000 years ago in North America doesn't mean it'll work here today. I wouldn't mind giving something new a shot though, what we have is not working for most people.
Things seemed pretty good in the pre-agricultural age of hunting and gathering.