this post was submitted on 30 Aug 2023
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Luis Chamberlain sent out the modules changes today for the Linux 6.6 merge window. Most notable with the modules update is a change that better builds up the defenses against NVIDIA's proprietary kernel driver from using GPL-only symbols. Or in other words, bits that only true open-source drivers should be utilizing and not proprietary kernel drivers like NVIDIA's default Linux driver in respecting the original kernel code author's intent.

Back in 2020 when the original defense was added, NVIDIA recommended avoiding the Linux 5.9 for the time being. They ended up having a supported driver several weeks later. It will be interesting to see this time how long Linux 6.6+ thwarts their kernel driver.

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[–] [email protected] 158 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (40 children)

Oh wow the comments on Phoronix for this one are bonkers.

From what I understand (because it wasn't clear to me from either of the TLDRs posted here) Nvidia's proprietary graphics driver has been calling parts of the kernel that they shouldn't be, because their driver is closed source.

These seem to be parts of the kernel that another company may own patents to, but has only licensed it to the kernel for free use with GPL open source code only, i.e. closed source/proprietary code is not allowed to use it.

Nvidia seems to have open sourced a tiny communication shim to try and bypass this restriction, so their closed source driver talks to the shim, and the shim talks to the restricted code in the kernel, that Nvidia does not have a license to use. This is a DMCA violation, hence why the Kernel devs are putting in preventions to block the shim, as far as I can see.

I don't understand the small minority of commenters there defending a la soulless corp Nvidia, who is blatantly in the wrong here. Some commenters have gone as far as to call the Linux kernel maintainers "zealots", would not be surprised if they are alts for Nvidia devs...

Edit: typo

[–] [email protected] 43 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Then isn't the correct solution to sue Nvidia?

It's a legal issue with a legal solution.

[–] [email protected] 75 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You dont sue someone with deeper pockets than you.

[–] [email protected] 58 points 1 year ago

This is what's wrong in so many countries.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

So you want the company that licensed the patents to the Linux kernel for open source use to have to sue Nvidia for wrongly using their code? You want the company to have to spend a bunch of money suing Nvidia and possibly lose which would open the flood gates to more closed source code leeching off the Linux kernel?

Yeah that's going to make them want to keep licensing their IP to the Linux Foundation (which they're probably doing for free).

Or the maintainers can just submit a fairly simple patch to ensure that the kernel and the patents are being respected. Do you really think the first approach is the way to go?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Because sueing is never great

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

Neither is having your copyright infringed. Neither is wasting volunteer manpower playing a technical game of cat and mouse

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 year ago (11 children)

Just a perspective on why people would support NVIDIA here:

  • They don't believe in copyright law so they don't mind whoever infringe on them. Especially since here it would make the proprietary driver work better.

  • They do care about copyright law but think having a working driver outweighs respecting them.

Not my opinion here just saying that for some people usability trumps any other aspects.

[–] [email protected] 90 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They don't believe in copyright law so they don't mind whoever infringe on them. Especially since here it would make the proprietary driver work better.

I don't believe in copyright law, but I especially don't believe in partially enforced copyright law. Nvidia doesn't get to use copyright to protect their proprietary code while infringing on the copyright of FOSS.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Good read. I think the root is simply, don’t care about the rights of others if it is going to cost them something personally.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago

I don’t understand the small minority of commenters there defending a la soulless corp Nvidia, who is blatantly in the wrong here.

They think they're gonna get a free 4090 in the mail any day now.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Phoronix comments are always wild

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Remind me of those who supports Red Hat for blocking sources and telling those who downstreams "code thief with no contribution to open source" lol.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

I did not “support” Red Hat but I was pretty vocally in opposition to most of the reaction to it. I found the willful inaccuracy and even flagrant dishonestly from the “community” close to disgusting at times. So, you may be including people like me in your comment.

In this case, it seems very straight-forward that NVIDIA is in the wrong. Not just ethically but legally as well.

My own read is that some of the people slamming Red Hat are defending NVIDIA now. Coming away from that experience, I the over-arching principle that many adhere to most is simply whatever is best for them. Red Hat was wrong because people felt entitled to something. The kernel devs are wrong ( and NVIDIA right ) because people feel entitled to something.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I need to upgrade my computer soon.... this crap makes me not want to go Nvidia again. (Running a looooong in the tooth 1060.)

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

Go ahead, I just ordered a new build specifically with a non-Nvidia card for the same reasons.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

The new 150$ range Amd cards are enticing. I could bring new life into my rx5500 htpc.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Thanks for the ELI5. I read the article but had a hard time parsing the significance other than Nvidia proprietary drivers bad

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYWzMvlj2RQ

"I'm also very happy to point out that nVidia has been the worst [...] so nVidia, "fuck you!""

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=iYWzMvlj2RQ

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Agree with your analysis, just pointing out that Phoronix forums have always been like this, or at least the tendency is to insult each other. Their culture is more toxic than any other Linux forums I've seen, maybe besides /g/.

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