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Germany Looks to Stop the Far Right From Assuming Power (www.nytimes.com)

submitted 8 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Yes, because it's so easy to murder a few people. We just need to label people we don't like as Nazis and shoot them. What could possibly go wrong? And when we are at it, I think my neighbour is a nazi too, let me shoot him.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

It's way easier to shoot a few nazis than to let them form political organizations, raise money, and present themselves as a threat. Yes, that's true.

You talk like it's difficult or debatable who qualifies as a nazi. It's not. They always expose themselves and announce their intentions clearly. This isn't a matter of people who we have a disagreement with. They're not simply people we don't like, they're people who threaten to kill us. This is a matter of fascists who publicly announce their intentions to pursue racist, bigoted murder against me and people like me. It is part of AfD's standard platform that LGBTQ people receive fewer rights than straight people, and that all foreigners should be rounded up and deported. Those are fascist threats, not some disagreement on who we like. They only historical method of dealing with these fascists is to destroy them before they destroy us.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

It is part of AfD's standard platform that LGBTQ people receive fewer rights than straight people,

They've supported civil unions but not gay marriage, but consider it a settled issue. Their leader, Alice Weidel, is a lesbian woman with a Sri Lankan partner.

and that all foreigners should be rounded up and deported

The AfD has many immigrant supporters and members. That secret meeting they supposedly had, about "deporting immigrants who refuse to assimilate"? It was a random far-right crank meeting in which a single AfD member attended, and was alienated from his party for doing so. This is what Alice Weidel had to say about it, translated:

Untrue allegations of the most outrageous media and political scandals, ladies and gentlemen. These are DDR methods. I think it's great that they're now writing everything down in detail. Private encounter between personalities with different backgrounds, including one AfD member and people without party reservations. It wasn't a secret meeting either, just a private gathering that these corrective activists used secret service methods to construct a conspiracy theory from.

The Bundestag faction on how to deal with the millions of irregular and illegal migration since 2015 is not set in alleged secret meetings, but in party conference committees. It is based on the basic program of 2016 in the EU election program and the numerous statements and parliamentary speeches you can read and listen to. All right state resources to prevent illegal border crossings through more effective border controls. To revoke citizenships obtained illegally from criminals who are not entitled to naturalization. To expel and deport migrants who are criminals and terrorist suspects who do not have a right to stay.

Whoever is a German citizen belongs without question, without a doubt, to the German people. This is precisely why German citizenship must not be lost and distributed with a watering can. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the enforcement of applicable law and regulations that have been neglected by the government for almost a decade in this process.

I certainly don't agree with them, but their platform is basically American Republican "tough on border and illegal immigrants" and "limiting and prioritizing skills based immigration" style.

This kind of disinformation is exactly how 2016 happened in the US. Trump says he wants to build a wall and curb illegal immigration, liberals say he wants to kick every Latino out of the country, his supporters get to shout "fake news" at everything. Calling them Nazis only feeds their supporters' victim complex; it's like Hillary's "basket of deplorables" but 100x worse, and AfD politicians get to go "you're upstanding citizens, but the woke left see you as evil for caring about your country. They're the real Nazis."

There are extremist minority politicians of the AfD who like to dogwhistle of course, which is also functionally the same as the GOP. Except if an AfD politician ever said something like "immigrants poison the blood of our country" as Trump did, they would be arrested.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I don't understand your point of saying the AfD are comparable to standard American Republicans as if that's a defense of them. I also believe Republicans should all be lined up and shot.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Do you realize how fascist you sound?

[–] [email protected] 23 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Is fascism just a tone of voice to you?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I mean there certainly is a tone to fascism. That and mass murdering your political dissidents

[–] [email protected] 20 points 8 months ago (1 children)

"So, you compare a country from what it came from, with all it’s imperfections. And those who demand instant perfection the day after the revolution, they go up and say “Are there civil liberties for the fascists? Are they gonna be allowed their newspapers and their radio programs, are they gonna be able to keep all their farms? The passion that some of our liberals feel, the day after the revolution, the passion and concern they feel for the fascists, the civil rights and civil liberties of those fascists who are dumping and destroying and murdering people before. Now the revolution has gotta be perfect, it’s gotta be flawless. Well that isn’t my criteria, my criteria is what happens to those people who couldn’t read? What happens to those babies that couldn’t eat, that died of hunger? And that’s why I support revolution. The revolution that feeds the children gets my support. "

Michael Parenti, 1986, “US Interventionism, the 3rd world, and the USSR,"

Yeah I just don't care about right-wingers and their precious civil rights. They're a fungus growing on the world from decaying capitalism. I have no sympathy for them whatsoever and don't regard them as valid political opponents. They're a death spiral menace to the world with nothing meaningful to contribute

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I get the feeling a large majority of the world's population are reactionary fascists by one standard or another to you.

Also, I'm not even necessarily against the idea of censoring Republicans, but KILLING them?

[–] [email protected] 18 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

The majority of the world aren't people actively involved in organizing and maintaining fascist organizations, right? If that's the case I don't give a shit about them. Keep those types powerless and isolated, remove the material conditions that give rise to fascist tendencies in the first place.

Why not kill Republicans by the way? Bush Jr. killed a million Iraqis. Trump mediated a genocide against Yemen. Mitch McConnell is already a walking zombie. What is gained from keeping them alive? I'm not talking about killing Republican voters or someone who has a bumper sticker. That's too much work to bother with. I'm talking about Republicans directly managing American empire for the benefit of capital. The average right wing voter is just some loser who deserves re-education.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (3 children)

I think Trump should be imprisoned, not KILLED. Why are you so lustful for blood and guts? Good lord

[–] [email protected] 16 points 8 months ago

because I can consider what exactly one Yemeni mother with dead kids thinks about Trump.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago

Somehow I doubt that the millions of us in the lower classes who suffered from his régime would be that restrained.

In any case, it isn’t a question of one individual’s prescription. It is more a question of historic inevitability and necessity. I can’t say anything for sure, but should the lower classes directly confront Donald Trump and Mike Pence one day, I have a feeling that we’ll be just as forgiving as lower‐class Italians were of Benito Mussolini. Only a guess, though.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 8 months ago

I don't think it's especially productive to kill people when imprisoning them is easy, as it would be with the resources in America, but I don't see why you are clutching your pearls this hard at a butcher of countless thousands being killed.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Which according to you is bad, but using force to stop it is equally as bad. Liberalism, everybody

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (3 children)

When have Republicans mass murdered their political dissidents? Another tool of fascists: extreme hyperbole.

If you think they're so dangerous to society, VOTE THEM OUT, reshape the system, hell the bar them from office! Massacring them just makes YOU the fascist

[–] [email protected] 23 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

When have Republicans mass murdered their political dissidents?

Every war America has ever involved itself in, plus an absurd amount of massacred and lynched prisoners, civil rights activists and random black and indigenous people, plus every victim of America's fascist puppet governments abroad, plus everyone who starves to death in capitalist countries where food is locked up to rot, plus everyone who dies of covid due to our non-response, ect. We would literally be here all day if I wanted to list out everyone the American capitalist oligarchy and it's decorative "parties" has slaughtered on the altar of capital.

If you think they're so dangerous to society, VOTE THEM OUT, reshape the system

michael-laugh Oh, is it the most important election of our lifetime again already? vote

Massacring them just makes YOU the fascist

Lol, there's no shame in admitting you don't know what fascism is dude. It's not transmissible like Lycanthropy, and it's not When Violence. Also, how the fuck do you think the nazis were stopped. You think they were voted out?

Although if massacring nondescript "dissenters" is what makes a government fascist, I'm glad we at least share the correct opinion that the US is fascist.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

VOTE THEM OUT

Can I persuade you to actually read Luxemburg, instead of just embodying the West German co-opting of her? Specifically, I'm thinking of Sozialreform oder Revolution?

[–] [email protected] 17 points 8 months ago

If you think they’re so dangerous to society, VOTE THEM OUT, reshape the system

https://lemmy.ml/post/7886270

[–] [email protected] -3 points 8 months ago (4 children)

You realize that you sound as extreme as those you want to destroy? I can't really tell the difference between Nazis and the likes of you anymore.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

sounds like you see more nazis than we do. We don't have this kind of problem of not understanding who is who. We know who the enemy is and what they deserve. if your understanding of fascists is this shallow it's no wonder you'd sympathize with them

[–] [email protected] -4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Who is "we"? A radical group of left wing fascists?

[–] [email protected] 21 points 8 months ago (1 children)

If you wanna insult me please call me a queer Marxist Stalinist devil worshiper or something, because that would be more accurate. Call me a North Korea apologist because that's true. I'd also readily accept insults like baizuo or first world crakkker, because those are unfortunately also true.

i think fascist for you just means "scary person with bad ideas." if it's only a pejorative to you, rather than a specific identifiable movement, then you're not gonna get it. I recommend reading Robert O. Paxton, or Marxist theorists like Antonio Gramsci or (my personal favorite) the historian Perry Anderson. They've all written on the particular contours of fascist ideology and how to identify it, rather than treating it as simply a set of violent tendencies.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago (1 children)

If you're fascist and antifascists come for you, you have a choice. You can give it up. You can go renounce what you said. You could just go on with the rest of your life and stop turning up at fascist rallies. Anti fascists probably aren't going to buy you a pint and be your best friend but they'll move on. But if you're a person of color, if you're trans, or a person with a disability or gay or Jewish, and fascists come for you, there is nothing you can do to make them happy except stop existing. If you're a political enemy of antifa, you can become a friend. If you're a political enemy of fascism, either they lose or you die.

Abigail Thorn, The Philosophy of Antifa