this post was submitted on 15 Mar 2024
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Leaked cable:
https://theintercept.com/2023/08/09/imran-khan-pakistan-cypher-ukraine-russia/
IK being charged by attempting to disclose the secret cable:
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/ex-pm-imran-khans-leak-secret-cable-hurt-pakistan-court-ruling-2024-02-01/
Wow. So i read the full transcript. A few points.
We don't know where this document originated and the intercept has not authenticated it (they at least claim as much)
Nothing Lu said is out of line. Which part do you take umbrage with? Khan is definitely putting his spin on this.
It's pretty much been confirmed because Imran Khan released parts of the message that match the version the intercept received much later, of which I already pointed out he was charged with breaking the state secrets law.
Lu was very set on wanting Imran Khan gone via the NCV. This cable wasn't meant to negotiate anything with Imran Khan or even tell him to rectify his stance on Ukraine. He said clearly that ties with Washington deteriorated and would only be restored if IK was removed.
More importantly, the cable was directed towards the Pakistan army who has the ultimate power in Pakistan (and incidentally has been bribed several times before). They did as they were asked and helped the NCV succeed by helping the opposition bribe and coerce party members to swap sides overnight. Then, they swiftly arrested IK, banned PTI as a political party, tortured and killed their party members, assassinated some journalists, shutdown the internet, banned Twitter, and called it a day.
It's nothing new for the USA or even Pakistan, it's just that this was probably the first grassroots populist party in Pakistan to ever get a chance at running the country and it lasted all but 5 seconds because that invovled the idea of foreign sovereignty which is something the USA doesn't like.
They can and will use whatever means necessary to keep their leverage in the global geopolitical scene.
I read the content of the transcript. A lot of leaps are being made from one diplomat's statements. Lu simply said they don't want to cooperate with a leader that is rubbing shoulders with Putin and it's perfectly reasonable considering a) Pakistan is the recipient of US foreign aid b) Putin is doing his best to annex every territory around Russia that he can before anyone stops him. Whatever Pakistan did to oust him needs further proof that it is directly caused by US interference. I haven't seen that yet.
Edit: you know what guys; this one politicians claims and a random cable is all we need. No further proof needed. American imperialism genocide colonialism western hegemony -- did I get all the poli-sci 101 buzzwords in yet or did I leave any out? Someone needs to create an 'america bad' phrase generator already. That is the sum of discourse on Lemmy after all.
Honestly, we should assume us interference until proven otherwise.
Honestly, we should rely on solid evidence. Exceptional claims require exceptional evidence.
That's the thing. They aren't exceptional claims. Would you like a list of democratically elected governments that have been toppled by the US gov't?
Is it from the last fifty years? Because if it's Venezuela, Nicaragua, etc thats all agreed on. If you're going to refer to that, then I get to apply the same logic and find fault with every other country in the world--we don't get to pick and choose who we like. It doesn't work like that. This is still an extraordinary claim for an event that happened last year.
Now you're getting it, no country has clean hands, however America for sure has the bloodiest and most recent record of fuckery.
"america had the bloodiest"- haha good one. North Korea, Russia, the Uyghuirs in China, and a couple dozen other countries would like a word. I love the selective outrage on this platform.
Imagine selectively ignoring the rest of the context of my whole statement. Are you illiterate? Take the 61 famine alone which killed 30 million people thanks to mismanagement by Mao's government. You guys are professionals at selective outrage.
30 million of his own people starving has nothing to do with illicit foreign affairs lol.
why are you pivoting to foreign affairs. The statement was about which countries has the most blood on their hands. You love word games, don't you?
I'm not pivoting at all, that's what this comment thread is about, big guy.
Those are the kinds of countries that you'd like to be lumped in with? Telling.
Nop. Those where three countries that came up right away at the top of my head with least effort. I'd like to know how you came to your categorical declaration that "America has the bloodiest". Again, it's selective outrage. You guys are professionals at picking and choosing.
Not a bad place to start.
However it's more of a pattern of behavior, so might take some more reading up on the history side of things.
More grandstanding. Provide an argument instead of patronizing with "go read more".
Someone still hasn't read the link lol.
Maybe don't be so offended when people rightly criticize your country. You didn't choose to be born there.
I'm not offended. I didn't even grow up in the US. I just hate the low effort and poor media literacy on social media. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The whole "America bad" is a worthless schtick intended just for virtue signaling.
Lol then you need to read more.
In my experience, anyone that has ever said "you need to read more" has either a) no substantive argument to make b) is equally ignorant on the topic at hand. I have yet to be proved wrong, such this lovely example right here. You guys are only interested in grandstanding. Which is fine, grandstanding makes you feel good, so you do you.
Lmao, cry much? Do you work for the propaganda department of the US or something? Why are you so unbelievably offended that America, "the world police", has the most blood on their hands?
I've noticed you like to load a lot of emotion in your language. "Cry much" "blood on hands". I don't care who has the most blood on their hands. I'd like to see more fact based discussion. Is that...too much to ask? Seems enough to have ruffled a few feathers. I guess I'll go "cry more" now. Yikes.
You do you lol