this post was submitted on 01 Feb 2024
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Should've done what Snowden did. If you know what you're going to do, will lead to these consequences? Get the hell out of the country.
Because this is EXACTLY the kind of thing the American Government would've done to Snowden if he stayed. Snowden was right that he knew they wouldn't give him a fair trial.
Eh, even if he did get a fair trial, what he did was clearly illegal and was definitely going to land him in prison. It was the right thing to do, but unless you have full faith that you're going to get a presidential pardon, you're right that you should be prepared to leave the country and never come back.
Whistleblower laws need strengthening. Snowden's leaks, for example, were clearly in the public interest and needed to be leaked. It's an unjust country that can't see that and spare him.
When you're going against the permanent state, there's no such thing as a fair trial.
Pfft, I say this about every article about someone getting arrested for committing a major crime.
"Oh no I've murdered someone, let me just hide the body reallllly good and call it a day" LMAO
Bro, Snowden literally got people killed. That guy isn't the hero people like to pretend he is.
What people did he get killed?
It's been a minute since I've refreshed myself on the Snowden story, and I don't have time to go deep into that rabbit hole again, but if memory serves I believe he released non-redacted documents that exposed the positions/identities of deployed US assets, and some who were operating undercover had their identities blown.
He gave it to specific journalists with proven track records who concluded that the published info was in the public interest while running it by the government and redacting confidential identifying data.
You can't get more responsible than that.
You remember the government claiming it, but as far as I know they never released any actual statements that his leaks killed anyone.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/438jmw/official-reports-on-the-damage-caused-by-edward-snowdens-leaks-are-totally-redacted
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL2N1BR287/
Both of these are pretty typical of all the articles I have seen, which is the government claiming he did great harm, but no actual examples of getting anyone killed.
Yeah, that sound about right. I don't remember it ever being confirmed what, if anything, was actually compromised by the leaks. But I doubt that we'd ever get specific details on something like that from the government, anyway.
Though I imagine that a lot of ongoing operations at the time probably had to be cancelled prematurely, the consequences of which might never really be known.
This is the fear that is always instilled in people whenever the government takes an L. I'm not saying it's a false statement, but it's also unsubstantiated.
That's because they were spies. Spies aren't typically talked about. SOME of the programs he detailed in those releases were within the scope of what he was trying to expose, but many were not. He dumped THOUSANDS of documents related to humint sources that absolutely got people killed, burned other active contacts / projects and cost years worth of work. There was a huge shuffle of personnel after those leaks as intelligence agencies TRIED to get their people out, but there were a great number who couldn't get out. Andrew Bustamante speaks about this, at some length, to just name the most well known talking head.
The majority of what he exposed had nothing to do with domestic surveillance programs, and the way he exposed that information was WILDLY irresponsible.
Yes, the illegal surveillance he exposed was a big deal, but again, was done in a really shitty way that compromised active investigations. He neglected to do anything through proper channels, and instead betrayed his country rather than try to fix the problems through whistle blower channels where he would have actually had legal and tangible protections. Dude was an actual shit bag and a Russian asset.
I'm not going to pretend he wasn't reckless as fuck but don't pretend for even a moment that "going through the proper channels" would have gotten him anything that even halfway resembled a fair trial.
See Thomas A Drake
If the gov didn't want its secrets out in the open, they shouldn't have been spying on their citizens. Maybe there would be less sympathy if the leaks didn't bring to light the bombing of Bagdad full of civilians in the middle of the night and how the military hid it.
Maybe it was all for the money and Snowden is just a dick, but I'm glad he did it.
Several things can be true at once. We don't have to be all-in on one side or the other of the Snowden affair. I've never understood why people seem so eager to pick a team on this issue.
People no like to think nuanced, simpler to think black or white.
That's probably the best stance.
I guess I see the leaks as a direct consequence to the action of various agencies and military, and I'm conflicting villainizing Snowden and villainizing the leaks themselves.
The government got caught red handed and I can't really see myself being on any side other than the one directly opposite to them on the issue.
Maybe, just maybe, if the government hadn’t been doing something worth whistleblowing about, those people would still be alive.
Evidence? I couldn't find anything that would indicate anyone died.
On the otherhand he did expose the government (NSA) spying program
Patriot Act was the worst thing to happen to America
Bro, by definition you're not gonna get "evidence" of top secret programs and sources that were compromised. It just doesn't even make sense to think you would.
If you look at the things that were happening overseas in the immediate aftermath of those releases, You'll see what I'm talking about. As much as I'd love to spend a bunch of time digging up all that information again, as you can tell by the voting patterns here, people are clearly not interested in the facts or intelligent discourse so I'm not going to waste my time. You can easily look up the articles about how we and our allies were scrambling to recall people, and how people didn't come home. You can dig up plenty of information from a whole host of analysts and security related personnel who aren't affiliated with the government who can verify the carelessness of his disclosures and how they did more harm than good.
Yes, Patriot act was an absolute travesty and shouldn't exist. Yes, the domestic programs Snowden exposed were illegal and needed to be stopped, but they also were widely misunderstood in their scope and danger to US citizens.... In fact, they still exist to this day in more or less the same capacity for that reason.
No, he didn't do it the right way, and I wish he had because he could have actually done good things instead of just serving his country's enemies. The things he exposed in the US were pretty trivial, in the grand scheme of things, and were widely misunderstood. He could have shut those domestic programs down without compromising the foreign intelligence sources, but he chose not to. He was irresponsible, and flat out was not a good guy.
Bruh, stop pretending you care about something as people dying. There's no evidence to the contrary or anything. You're happily talking out of your ass to sound important. Kindly go fuck yourself.
When he first leaked the information out, I really felt bad for the guy and I followed him pretty closely. He knowingly threw * his life away to let people know that X,Y and z were happening. But *as he started getting passed around slowly from journalist to journalist, They started asking him questions. It became more and more obvious that he was just some kind of average dude, that saw something wanted to say something and needed to make sure that he could cover his ass.
I honestly think that the US handled it poorly. *He was a whistleblower, guy cared, guy was in the public eye It had at least a decent trove of data.
They should have brought him back in, giving him some conditional amnesty and had him help them dismantle the leak as much as possible. Then they could have give him a cushy job gag ordered him and had him come out of the public eye immediately.
Once he was seeking asylum the only way he's going to be able to pay for that asylum is with the information he pilfered. Once he is out in no man's land and stuck, the decisions that he made are not all going to be his own. *There will even the ones that he will make in resentment.
I truly believe his initial act was absolutely made with good intentions, but he got trapped and was drawn down into things that were bigger than he was capable of sorting out.
In the end the US government allowed him to owe a debt to the Russian government. And that was never going to play out well.
*God, Google dictation sucks
Being a spy is dangerous.