this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2023
192 points (93.6% liked)

Technology

59424 readers
3919 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related content.
  3. Be excellent to each another!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Visual artists fight back against AI companies for repurposing their work::Three visual artists are suing artificial intelligence image-generators to protect their copyrights and careers.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (42 children)

It can't take a previous result, be inspired by it, and make it better.

Why do you think so? AI art can take an image and change it in creative ways, just as humans can.

There has to be actual human input, it can't train itself on its own data, the way humans do.

Only an incredibly small amount of humans ever "trained itself" without relying on previous human data. Anyone who has ever seen any piece of artwork wouldn't qualify.

AI art has NEVER made me feel like it's greater than the sum of its parts.

Art is subjective. I've seen great and interesting AI art, and I've seen boring and uninspired human art.

If a human does art without input, you still get "something".

Really? Do you have an example for someone who is deaf, blind, mute and can't feel touch, who became an artist? Because all of those are inputs all humans have since birth.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (41 children)

I'm talking from a perspective of understanding how machine learning networks work.

They cannot make something new. By nature, they can only mimic.

The randomness they use to combine different pieces of work, is not creativeness. It's brute force. It's doing the math a million times until it looks right.

Humans fundamentally do not work that way. When an engineer sees a design, and thinks "I can improve that" they are doing so because they understand the mechanism.

Modern AIs do not understand anything. They brute force their way to valid output, and in some cases, like with code, science, or an engineering problem, there might be one single best solution, which an AI can find faster than a human.

But art, DOES NOT HAVE a single correct "solution".

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (19 children)

I’ve tried to explain this to a lot of people on here and they just don’t seem to get it. Art fundamentally relies on human experience for meaning. AI does not replicate that.

Seems like people on this platform are very engineering focused, and many aren’t artists themselves and see it as a pure commodity instead of a reflection of the artist.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

artist here. nobody is thinking about AI as a tool being used.. by artists.

the pareidolia aspect of diffusion specifically does a great job of mimicking the way artists conceptualize an image. it's not 1 to 1, but to say the models are stealing from the data they were trained on is definitely as silly as claiming an artist was stealing every time they admired or incorporated aspects of other people's art into their own.

i'm also all for opensource and publicly available models. if independent artists lose that tool, they will be competing with large corps who can buy all the data they need, and hold exclusive proprietary models while independent artists get nothing.

ultimately this tech is leading to a holo-deck style of creation, where you can define you vision through direction and language rather than through hands that you've already destroyed practicing linework for decades. or through hunting down the right place for a photograph. or having a beach not wash your sandcastle away with the tide.

there are many aspects to art and creation. A.I. is one more avenue, and it's a good one. as long as we don't make it impossible to use without subscribing to the landlords of art tools.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I absolutely approve of AI tools as a way for artists to empower themselves. Because there is human input.

The "best" AI art I've seen is the type posted by people who were already drawing before, and are using it as a tool to realise their vision. But that's the crux of the issue, in these pieces a human conceived the them, the tools used to realize them, don't matter.

But a lot of people are presenting AI as a something that replaces the whole person of an artist. Not a new brush for them to wield in creatively intelligent ways.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I often see the sentiment that AI art is only valid when it is created by people who were already drawing before. It's a pernicious notion I don't agree with at all. I think this is the birth of a new and exciting form of expression that can and should be explored by anyone, regardless of any experience or skill level.

Generative art allows more people to communicate with others in ways they couldn't before, and to inspire and be inspired by others. The stuff people post online isn't just a matter of pressing a button and getting a random result. It requires creativity, curiosity, experimentation, and refinement. It also requires learning how to use new skills they may not have had to effectively use new tools that are rapidly evolving and improving to express themselves. Generative art is not a passive process, but an active one, where human artists get a chance to create something unique and meaningful.

Remember: It costs nothing to encourage an artist, and the potential benefits are staggering. A pat on the back to an artist now could one day result in your favorite film, or the cartoon you love to get stoned watching, or the song that saves your life. Discourage an artist, you get absolutely nothing in return, ever.

― Kevin Smith, Tough Shit: Life Advice from a Fat, Lazy Slob Who Did Good

I believe that generative art, warts and all, is a vital new form of art that is shaking things up, challenging preconceptions, and getting people angry - just like art should. And if you see someone post some malformed monstrosity somewhere, cut them some slack, they're just learning.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I absolutely approve of AI tools as a way for artists to empower themselves. Because there is human input.

Why does that "fix it" for you? Earlier you stated that AI cannot create anything new by its very nature. Why does the status of the output change if an artist uses it? Why is it art when an artist does it, but not if a non-artist does it?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm not talking about "artists" who fiddle with prompts until they got something pretty and then treat the result as a finished piece.

I'm talking about people generate a nose, a hand, a set of abs, a piece of clothing, a texture for a set of clothing, and then combine these with their "traditional" digital art skills.

They are using the AI like a brush, not a printer.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And why is only that "art"? Why is it not art when I use in-painting to generate individual parts of the image? Where is the magical border where it turns from not-art to art?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The magical border is whether it originated in a human mind. What tools were used to get it out and into world don't matter.

A lot of AI content out there right now, isn't the result of that process. The AI generated something the artist liked, rather than the artist bending the AI into realising what they could already see in their mind.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So if I enter a prompt and click "generate" it clearly originated in my mind, and it's art.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Interesting that you don't explain why, as it satisfies your earlier statement.

load more comments (17 replies)
load more comments (38 replies)
load more comments (38 replies)