this post was submitted on 29 Dec 2023
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I guess we’ll see in 50 years which nation still exists.
Looks at all of Palestine’s immediate neighbors in the Middle East who won’t even lift a finger to even admit refugees.
I think I know where I’ll put my money.
Might makes right, huh? I already know Palestine will be completely ethnically cleansed and then israel will move onto taking parts of Syria and other countries in their goal of lebensraum. That doesn't mean it's morally right.
You either didn’t read my comment from earlier in the thread or you enjoy trying to frame an argument.
I’ll post it below for you to read and educate yourself.
There have been two state solutions on the table with Jerusalem as the Palestinian capital on the table multiple times. Palestinians turned every one of them down. Instead of building their own state they will be further pushed out of Gaza. Where they go is anyones guess no one wants them, especially other Muslim states.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-state_solution
TLDR: Palestine will be wiped of the map unless they choose a different path. Israel isn’t going anywhere.
The negotiations were argued in bad faith. Israel would put forth ridiculous demands and then lay the blame on Palestine for rejecting them. Why do you think Palestinians are being pushed out of Gaza and have been continually and constantly pushed out for decades? There was never a sincere effort for a two-state solution.
Nobody wants to take on many refugees all at once, it's very difficult to manage. Why do you think Britain "volunteered" Palestinian land to relocate Jews out of Europe? It wasn't out of the goodness of their heart.
No response to this of course. Don't even expect one. They are currently with their fingers in their ears yelling "LALALLALALALA"
There's literally a response just below yours, but of course taking the time to make sure you're actually right is never a strong point for you people.
I personally find it very funny that the pro-Palestinian go-to is that none of the offers Israel made for a 2 state solution were 'realistic' or 'serious' or 'good faith'. No one doubts that there were offers. Tell me, in what other scenario in all of human history do the losers of a war (that they started) get to dictate the terms of their surrender?
Bullshit, there have been multiple attempts at a settlement with regional actors who were sympathetic to the Palestinians. Palestinians turned them all down.
Not a single country in the Middle East has volunteered to take in even a token amount of refugees… Egypt used to control the Sinai and govern that region… nada, zilch, zero refugees allowed to cross into their boarders.
Nobody in the Middle East except Iran wants anything to do with the Palestinians. Iran is only happy to use them to further their regional goals.
Saudi was in the middle of negotiations with Israel before this conflict broke out.
Why is this? Because everyone has tried to negotiate a peace and the Palestinians refuse to come to terms.
Israel is waging total war on Gaza. It’s ugly and civilians will be killed. Nobody is going to stop them because the region wants an end to this conflict one way or another and no one gives a shit about Palestine.
Brutalizing Gaza and driving Hamas out is the only way this is going to be solved.
Palestinians DON'T WANT TO GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY. THEY WANT TO STAY IN THEIR HOME THE PLACE THEIR FAMILIES HAVE LIVED FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS
Great, but they haven’t accepted any peace plan that was negotiated in the last 40 years so they could stay in their homes.
Instead they choose war.
so If I threw you out of your house, then you tried to break back in, would that be you "choosing violence"? or would you be justified?
Israel has no intention of living side by side with Palestinians they have always wanted to continually push them off more and more land until there is none left.
If you don't believe me explain what is happening in the West Bank right now??? Hamas isn't in control there, the gov in the west bank complies with Israel and there has been no terror attacks staged from there AND YET the settlers and the IDF continue to harrass and kill and displace people. Its clear that for the Palestinians they have 2 choices, fight or leave and never see their homes again. Fighting is the more courageous choice.
You wouldn’t throw me out of my house. I have guns and state backing.
So do Palestinians, but when they use them to resist occupation thousands of them die for it. Goddamn I had no idea there were literally people that think might makes right, that if a country outlasts and conquers others that justifies any atrocities
You're arguing with a moron, sorry to tell ya bro.
If driving out hamas is the only way this is going to be solved, why weren't things solved before the existence of hamas? Egypt and saudi arabia have negotiated and a lot of money has exchanged hands to keep them docile. Egypt is high on the list of recipients of US foreign aid, i.e. money to shut up and behave according to US interests. The US clearly favored israel in the camp david meetings and even spied on egypt for the benefit of israel during that time (https://www.forbes.com/sites/daveywinder/2020/02/12/cia-secretly-bought-global-encryption-provider-built-backdoors-spied-on-100-foreign-governments):
"In the meantime, more than 100 governments around the world, possibly as many as 120, purchased and employed the backdoored equipment. China and the Soviet Union, as it was then, weren't amongst the buyers. However, Egypt was, and this apparently enabled the U.S. to monitor communications between Anwar Sadat and Cairo during the Egypt-Israel peace accord meeting at Camp David in 1978."
Why are you focusing on other countries taking on refugees? These people shouldn't be driven out of their homes to create refugees in the first place.
It’s similar to Ukraine, they don’t want peace unless it means getting all their land back. You can literally apply the same logic and say Ukraine can stop the war if they just agree to peace today.
If Ukraine has been firing rockets into Russia, the Russian invasion would have been justified.
Ukraine has a viable path to military victory, Palestine does not. Israel was attacked and is counter attacking in defense, Russia invaded Ukraine under obvious bullshit pretext as a land grab. Your bias is obvious if you can't see the difference.
Somewhat similar, but the bottom line is Ukraine is a recognized nation with international backing. Russia attacked them to gain territory. If Ukraine can beat this round of Russian aggression they get to remain a state and regain their lost lands. If they can’t beat the Russians back then it is an entirely different scenario. As much as I want to see them succeed there is a chance they could fail.
Finland also lost a huge chunk of territory to Russia back in the 1940s. They recognized they couldn’t beat back the Russians, struck a deal and moved on. They are now arguably better off than if the choose to continue the fight.
Gaza is not a state, the Palestinians had multiple a chances for statehood and a shot at peaceful prosperity. Instead they choose to continue to fight and commit terrorism. The current state of total war between Israel and Hamas are the consequence of their actions.
So if the Nazis won WWII, you'd support them? You've already made it clear you're willing to support far-right genocidal ethnostates.
I wouldn’t support the Nazis, but I’d realize they are going to act in their own self interest and influence the world around them to benefit their society to the best of their ability.
Finland realized it could not win fighting the Soviets and ceded territory for peace. I’d say it worked out well for them.
Palestinians have overplayed their hand for forty years and this latest conflict is just the consequence of their own actions.
Palestine isn't genociding itself, and they were led by secular moderates until Israel backed Hamas to create the pretext for the genocide they're now committing. They've been relegated to an open-air concentration camp as Israel kills orders of magnitude more Palestinians than Hamas kills Israelis. This is just far-right lunatics creating an ethnostate via genocide - like the Nazis.
The Nazis weren't about improving society - they wanted to kill multiple groups and suppress the rest. It's a deeply stupid ideology in addition to being monstrous.
Does your apparent "I think this monstrous bullshit is in my personal self-interest, so it's justified" principle extend to Hamas attacking Israel? What if I'm homeless hungry and horny - do I get to kill you, take your house, rape your wife and eat your kid? If not, why not?
Israel hasn't existed for a long ass time until the last century, shouldn't that be evidence that Jewish people don't belong there by your logic?
The Jews were going to end up somewhere after WW2. Their ancestral homeland won out. They also had the backing of major Western powers.
Nations fall and nations rise, such is life. Don’t be on the wrong side of his . Jews all over the Middle East have been pushed out of their communities since Israel was founded. Sucks for them as well, once again don’t be on the wrong side of history.
Blood and soil? Rudolph Jitler shit.
No just real politik. Nations and people act in their own self interest and influence the world around them to the best of their abilities.
Facism is just stupid.
An apartheid state committing a genocide to create an ethnostate is acceptable self-interest? This isn't self-defence - particularly when Israel backed Hamas over the secular moderates to create the pretext for this. Netanyahu is getting Israelis killed by both Hamas and the IDF.
I agree - Israel and the Nazis are stupid and monstrous, which is why I condemn both. What's the material difference between the far-right, genocidal fascist ethnostates Israel and Nazi Germany as far as you're concerned?
Well shut it down boys we’ve gone full circle. Israelis are killing themselves by killing the people responsible for…killing them.
That is perhaps the most convoluted display of mental gymnastics I’ve ever seen.
You still haven't explained the meaningful difference between Israel's genocide in advancement of a fascist ethnostate and Hitler's genocide in advancement of a fascist ethnostate.
I’ve stated it multiple times in this thread. Here is a copy paste from earlier:
Sucks to be on the wrong side of history. No one wants to loose their communities, property or livelihoods. However the Jews had a claim to the area going back thousands of years and they needed to go somewhere.
There were many Jewish communities across the Middle East prior to the 1940s that no longer exist anymore either. I wonder who pushed them out… do they get the same sentiment from your bleeding heart?
There have been two state solutions on the table with Jerusalem as the Palestinian capital on the table multiple times. Palestinians turned every one of them down. Instead of building their own state they will be further pushed out of Gaza. Where they go is anyones guess no one wants them, especially other Muslim states.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-state_solution
Let me know if this is clear enough or if I should draw something with a crayon for you.
Blood and soil was a Nazi argument - the fact that you're unable to differentiate yourself from Hitler in any meaningful way should give you motivation for self-reflection. You've had multiple opportunities to do this, and failed miserably.
Much like Putin's efforts to negotiate with Ukraine being conditional on full surrender and de-armament, Israel haven't made anything resembling a good faith effort to negotiate. In any case, if they wanted reasonable negotiations, they wouldn't have helped jihadists secure power in Palestine, displacing secular moderates.
You don't have the charisma to convincingly sell your Nazi talking points. I'd suggest committing to the bit and copying Hitler's exit strategy like you've copied his prescriptions, methods, and talking points.
Yeah chief, the only person quoting Hitler or the Nazi’s in this entire thread is you.
You either have fetishized Nazi’s to a degree that you can’t separate your fetish from reality or you’re just projecting.
Either way you can fuck right off.
Imagine trying to claim the moral high ground and painting the other person as a Nazi after failing to identify any point of difference you have with the Nazis.
Real simple - for starters, they're genocidal, fascist morons, and ethnostates are pathetic.
Not that it'll prove a thing, but I'll let you continue your fail streak by asking you to point out out where I quoted Hitler as you mirrored his ideology.
I'll extend an olive branch though - I can help direct you to a bunker so that you can finish the copycat job if you'd like.
You've seen the reports of the IDF killing shirtless Israeli hostages waving white flags and speaking Hebrew because they're tripping over themselves to kill as many Palestinians as possible. The IDF themselves admitted to this.
Israel funded Hamas over secular orgs (widely and credibility reported) to create the pretext for this genocide.
Where's the mental gymnastics, Jitler? While you're at it, you can explain why the far right wing, genocidal fascist ethnostatists are bad when they're Nazis, but not Israelis. Easy for me - refer to my description of both.
Israel is gonna wipe out everyone who was currently there, if you don't like that you're on the wrong side of history. Understood, all hail lord Netanyahu!
You don’t have to like it. The Palestinians could have made different decisions to prevent the current conflict (like don’t support terrorist organizations who will sneak attack civilians on a holiday as your method of government).