ToastedPlanet

Kamala was a neoliberal, who would improve things incrementally, running against a fascist. We all knew she wasn't an ideal candidate and told people that. I know I did. We know the Democrats are neoliberals, a right leaning political position. We needed to delay fascism four more years to get a progressive or socialist candidate in the next Democratic primary. We failed.

It's over. We lost the election. You were had. I'm sorry that happened. It can happen to anyone.

Take a break, when you feel better, come back. People will be organizing to fight back against fascists. This time, please join them instead of arguing against them. Saying 'both sides' isn't helping.

No, voting is part of how we move the Overton window to the left. If we don't vote, it moves to the right.

The parties are not the same. Democrats passed the infrastructure bill, cancelled student load debt, and appointed judges to the courts that uphold our rights. They did those things in response to pressure from grassroots movements that showed the viability of progressive causes. Republicans separated immigrant families, took reproductive freedom away from Americans, and led an insurrection against our country. People who aren't watching Fox News or otherwise trapped in right-wing information silo can tell them apart.

There's no way to argue you out of a con. You've been duped and we need people like you to realize it. Or things will not get better. The people who sold you the both sides narrative are gone. They spread their misinformation, tanked American democracy, and now you are still parroting their talking points.

I am begging you. You have been fooled. Please believe me. Again, it is not possible for me to argue you out of this. You have to trust someone. If you can't trust me or any of the other people on lemmy saying the same thing, find someone irl you can trust. That's the only way you can get better.

Things don't deserve to get even worse because people let them get worse. This is why accelerationism is inherently a false promise, because no matter how bad things get accelerationists want to watch them get even worse. Accelerationism can't make things better because the only way to do that is to actively make them better.

It was never about stopping genocide because the US burning to the ground would involve the genocide of tens of millions of people and allow dictatorships to continue genocides and start new genocides all over the world.

It was never about leftism because now the far-right is in the position to prosecute their political rivals and send the armed forces after their ideological opposition.

It was never about helping anyone because now the Republicans can replace the government with MAGA loyalists and defund any social program that could have helped people.

It was about destroying a country that shattered their self-image as a good person. Accelerationists felt like they had blood on their hands by association of being a US citizen and they wanted revenge for the damage to their ego. They were duped. The scam was different but they contributed to the same fascist takeover as the Republican voters who had been duped by Fox News.

We have between now and the death camps to fix this. Start by learning this. We don't live in a moral universe, but a physics-based universe. Acting in a way that feels morally right isn't guaranteed to achieve the goal it is subjectively morally consistent with. But it is a way to be conned by people who will offer a way to absolve a person of their country's guilt.

What difference does it make which form of government is fucking you over?

Democrats wanted to incrementally improve things. Republicans wanted to round us up into camps.

Voters had an opportunity to prevent a christo-fascist dictatorship and they didn't take it. Moving things to the left in this country has always involved voting. Losing our democracy doesn't improve the Democratic Party. If there is another election, which we can't count on, Democrats are going to learn that they need to move further to the right to pick up votes. They've done it before, and they will do it again. They will look at the conservatives who voted and tailor a party platform for them.

Democrats could not care less about appealing to nonvoters or third party voters. They only care about winning, which is probably part of why they suck at it.

Voting should be a mechanical choice during elections. If people want better candidates, organize, and do the work to get grassroots movements off the ground between elections.

Instead of picking a strategy based on a subjective morality people should consider analyzing strategies based on their utility.

If a strategy advances a goal it's useful. If it doesn't, it's not. Voting for the Democrats demonstrates a wider voting base for them to move to the left. Moving Democrats to the left is the goal so this strategy is useful. Protest voting takes votes away from the Democrats so they look for voters on the right. This accomplishes the opposite of the goal so this strategy is not useful.

I like to think most people will have a wake up moment between being rounded up in death camps and digging their own mass graves. We need to organize to tell them sooner than that so they can do something about it before it's too late.

The fascists will kill you for voting for their opposition sure. They were going to kill their political and ideological opponents regardless. They know they need to remove socialists and progressives so the country they takeover has no alternative to them. They aren't going to spare a member of an out group because that person voted for them.

Nationalism is just a mechanism to justify racism to the fascist. Not all racists are fascists, but all fascists are racists.

340 - (74 million children + 70 million Trump voters + 68 million Harris Voters) = 128 million nonvoters, some of who are probably not eligible for one reason or another, so a conservative estimate of 100 million nonvoters

Regardless the worst case estimate from 2018 is 11 million people in the US are fascists. That's a good ball park number to work with anyway. The nonvoters outnumber the fascists almost ten to one.

https://www.vox.com/2018/8/10/17670992/study-white-americans-alt-right-racism-white-nationalists

Dictators do love revising history to entrench their rule.

The worst case estimate has it at 11 million people are fascists in the US. This is from 2018, but it gives a good ball park number for today. edit: 2018 not 2016

https://www.vox.com/2018/8/10/17670992/study-white-americans-alt-right-racism-white-nationalists

They are unlikely to be happy with being murdered by fascists in death camps.

I'm sorry that happened. Thank you for sharing. People need to hear stories like these.

The accelerationism was fucking awful. =(

You tried everything to reach those people. I appreciate you.