OurToothbrush

"No homo" immediately after having sex for the first time, we have been together for 8 years now

(We are lesbians this isn't homophobia)

Its literally an alternative where workers own the means of production. How is that not outside the system?

Because capitalism isn't just individual companies, it is also the state, financial systems, markets, etc. If two out of 5 production systems become cooperatives the owners of the last 3 are gonna instruct the police to restore capitalist control to the two.

But co-ops can exist outside the system

They straight up do not exist outside the system? I dont know why you think they exist outside the system.

Can you phrase this as constructive criticism for which are the proper words to use in this seperate use case or do I need to refer you to the constructive criticism handbook?

Also, establishing working definitions for use in casual conversation is a thing. Please note that I established definitions for their use.

This isn't in the context of utility value vs exchange value. This is separating value creation from the mode of production. Work as in workplace not work as in physical process

Labor is when you do a thing that has value to society.

Work is like, a job, where you do labor (or not) and that pays you so that you can spend money to sustain your existence. If you get disabled you can be fired and not have money long term to continue existing.

People, ironically enough, are more efficient laborers when they aren't doing it in the trappings of work, so there isn't any reason for work to exist.

Sex work is work, and work (tying your capacity for labor to your continued survival) is bad. Sex workers should be supported like any member of the proletariat

Sex labor on the other hand? Sure as long as you have removed the exploitive element that comes with work.

to advocate for cooperatives and elect officials that will help support them? With the right state sponsored incentives, cooperatives can be a great stepping stone for a peaceful transition of power giving workers ownership to the means of production. I struggle to understand how someone can argue against this idea.

So basically the state exists in order to defend capitalism from internal and external threats, and a cooperative movement growing too big is a threat that it is going to respond to violently. Hell, union struggles led to literal battles and aerial bombings, and they only wanted better conditions working for the capitalists.

There’s already a lot of us in support of socialist ideas where one of the biggest criticisms is for a planned economy

Planned economies are good actually, there is a reason semi-feudal russia was able to go to space in 40 years after the revolution, while beating off imperial superpowers like Germany and Britain.

Was Lenin aware of cooperatives when he wrote the state and revolution? Its not a theoretical idea.

Yes lol: https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/kropotkin-peter/1917/a-meeting.html

There can be no such thing as peaceful revolution, if your political movement is getting anywhere the bourgeoisie will send their dogs to destroy it, and it will be violent. You must only look to history to see how easily the mask of civility slips away and the inhuman, bloodthirsty face of capital is revealed.