this post was submitted on 01 Aug 2023
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Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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Opinion: Distributions that only change non-system pre-installed software or desktop environment should instead be packages or scripts (lemmy.ml)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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The majority of Linux distributions out there seem to be over-engineering their method of distribution. They are not giving us a new distribution of Linux. They are giving us an existing distribution of Linux, but with a different distribution of non-system software (like a different desktop environment or configuration of it)

In many cases, turning an installation of the base distribution used to the one they're shipping is a matter of installing certain packages and setting some configurations. Why should the user be required to reinstall their whole OS for this?

It would be way more practical if those distributions are available as packages, preferably managed by the package manager itself. This is much easier for both the user and the developer.

Some developers may find it less satisfying to do this, and I don't mean to force my opinion on anyone, but only suggesting that there's an easier way to do this. Distributions should be changing things that aren't easily doable without a system reinstall.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't think they'd be so popular if they weren't useful.

Why should the user be required to reinstall their whole OS? I don't think they are: it seems relatively straightforward to change DEs on Ubuntu at least.

On the other hand, if someone knows they want Ubuntu with KDE, why should they have to go through a regular Ubuntu install just to do the post configuration themselves? Plus, maintainers of these offshoot distros can potentially more deeply remove dependency on the default DE.

I think focusing on differences in system software is less illustrative than looking at the out-of-the-box user experience and capabilities. A changed DE is a pretty huge practical difference.

This line of thought does really underscore how nebulous the definition of an operating system really is. Pour one out for GNU being totally subsumed culturally by a Kernel that everyone sees as an OS.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Name a single popular distro that follows op's description that isn't a novelty/fad.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Kubuntu

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

kubuntu is already literally just a package.

if you just install kubuntu-desktop (or something similar) from any buntu flavor you get it.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And that's exactly my point. You get the same experience by just installing a package rather than having to "distro-hop"

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

[This comment has been deleted by an automated system]

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Suppose kubuntu, ubuntu, lubuntu, xubuntu were packages to be installed on top of debian.

How would you do that? Debian would not create and maintain a "core debian" variant just to be installed then receive the extra packages. Would the *ubuntu packages replace, instead of add on top of default debian packages?

Then where would the updates come from? Both debian and *ubuntu repositories?

What about dependencies? Would debian have to coordinate with all *ubuntu maintainers (and they too, between them) for compatibility tests every time debian needed to update one of its packages? Or they'd just update and *ubuntu would have to scramble to release fixes for what had been broken?

Not to mention convenience; would you have to download debian, download *ubuntu, install debian, then your *ubuntu?

Why not then package the "core debian", with the tested component versions that work with the *ubuntu packages you're downloading? Hey, and what about script the installation to install both "core debian" parts and then *ubuntu automatically? That's an innovative idea indeed. No, wait, isn't it sort of what they already do today?

It's not like there's a Linux headquarters with a centralized organization that releases all multiple distros just to feed the hobby of distro hoppers. Distros are maintained and packaged by different people, and it's already a lot of trouble to keep each part in sync.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Debian would not create and maintain a "core debian" variant just to be installed then receive the extra packages

Debian server minimal, is kind of a "core Debian". There are netinst versions that can be even smaller. The Debian base image for Docker is even smaller than all that.

There is also an Ubuntu minimal install that you could call "core Ubuntu".

But more importantly, and I can't stress this enough: YOU CAN SWITCH DISTROS WITHOUT REINSTALLING. Might need to do some cleanup afterwards, but it's perfectly doable, more so between Debian based ones.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

YOU CAN SWITCH DISTROS WITHOUT REINSTALLING. Might need to do some cleanup afterwards, but it’s perfectly doable, more so between Debian based ones.

How do you do that? First time hearing this

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

Replace Debian apt sources with Ubuntu ones, do system upgrade and install the Ubuntu-Desktop package, now you have Ubuntu.

It's been a while since I have done this, but it's totally possible.

We did this transition from Ubuntu to Debian at Work with thousands of workstations.

It requires a bit of time and testing but it's possible.