I think the problem isn't that we eat meat. It's that we torture the animals and have them live in deplorable conditions before we eat them. If we all hunted or raised our own animals or had the animals live in decent conditions it would be less of an issue for most REASONABLE vegans and vegetarians. I used to be vegan and vegetarian a decade so I get it a bit. I hated it when anyone would bitch about other people's food choices, but then complain when they did the same to them for their food choices. Both sides I mean. I had some non-veggies once they found out I didn't eat meat would attack me for it. When I did start eating meat again some vegans and vegetarians would attack me for it.

So we domesticated fire, that's one step out of the swamp and steppes.
Then there was agriculture and animal husbandry, we became sedentary.

Writing developed, accelerating growth in the arts, math and engineering, the sciences... we had domesticated knowledge and memory - data storage.

Before we knew it, the printing press popped up and soon after we domesticated something abstract and invisible, awesome and truly fundamental - electromagnetism. That's is the big game changer right there.

We have figured out our physical place in the universe.
We can image distant supermassive black holes, we have mapped the farthest, faintest reaches of the visible universe using the oldest light there is - the Cosmic Microwave Background (which started out as orange light 13.7 billion years ago).

We are now in the process of harnessing sunlight and the wind; the genome; we can now even perform data operations using quantum superimposed electron states, harnessing the subatomic wave function itself.

Surely we can now domesticate cruelty-free protein chemistry. So many steps away from the swamp and steppes already, so far we can't turn and go back again. What's one more step?

I feel like this is the “attack helicopter” joke of veganism

Let the Bullshit Bingo begin!

Don't forget where we came from and what shaped us as species

Isotopic evidence of high reliance on plant food among Later Stone Age hunter-gatherers at Taforalt, Morocco

The survival of the fittest narrative was debunked almost as soon as it existed, and that debunking is what forms the ideological basis of mutual aid. That people continue to spread this toxic misinformation over a century later is a testament to the unfortunate tenacity of lies.

Even in the most brutal depths of the natural world, cooperation is still the overarching basis of ecosystem health. It's known in Permaculture, for instance, that too much competition results in resource depletions.

A vegan ethic is inline with a growing awareness and need for us all to learn to expand our capacities of empathy and compassion, from those who are most like us, to those who are most unlike us.

On the topic of wilderness areas, vegans are divided on what the right approaches are. Some of us compare natural biomes to sovereign nations - while we dislike the harms that occur in those places, we feel a need to allow other species their independence to have their self-determination, if for no other reason than the fact that nature is the basis of maintaining a habitable planet, and interference in ecosystems should only be done with the utmost care.

But there are other vegans who do believe strongly that we should be intervening in wild places as well, with the goals of eliminating predation all together, and managing wildlife populations in more ethical ways.

It's a highly contentious topic to be honest.

Humans "i dont rape because i respect other humans". Meanwhile nature ....

And in before "but i need to eat", you dont need to eat animal products. You can have a healthy life with a vegan diet, arguably an even healthier life. And to go back to my original point, just because you need to cum, doesnt mean that you have the right to cause suffering and death to other sentient beings.

Just masturbate. Just go vegan.

Non-vegan, hearing that vegans exist: "Hey, these people are different from me! I hate them!"

I had thought that veganism was more of a beliefs thing: to not eat products of exploitation, but then I heard the honey thing. The honey thing might be just from an overbearing vegan, or I just don't know the details, but beekeeping just looks so peaceful

Imagine being this much of a naive child.

https://kellyjonesnutrition.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/manure-lagoon-1024x608.jpg

Nature according to people who use that argument