this post was submitted on 12 Jan 2024

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292

I don't... (sh.itjust.works)

submitted 10 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (6 children)

"reduces fragmentation" wtf lol. If it wasn't for flatpak making it easy to run proprietary / obscure apps on my weirdo little distro (Void Linux, one of the few remaining non-systemd distros) I would have switched to something mainstream like Debian long ago. People are gonna go with the distro that supports (i.e. has non-broken packages for) the apps they use. Having a cross-platform package manager makes it easier for small independent distros to exist and be useful, not harder.

EDIT: And while it's true that Wayland adoption kills obscure X11 window managers, Wayland adoption also spawns a wide range of obscure Wayland compositors. Think hyprland, wayfire... It's by far not all Gnome and KDE! If anything, we can expect more people making Wayland compositors as hobby projects, if Waylands claims about a simpler codebase are to be believed.

In conclusion: this is a stupid argument lmao

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

I like the way standardisation is going, everything is going to be on the bee standard and that that isnt being updated too well too bad. What seperates us from the windows users is we can evolve if ya look at the distro tree it looks a lot like natrual selection to me

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

Yes -flatpak. I'm not a big fan. It's nice though

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago

I don't like flatpak any more because it makes restoring snapshots take forever.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago (10 children)

Why not?

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Oh god, how bad flatpak is. I say this as someone who used to head up a security group for an OS.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Wayland is still too immature. I couldn't get it to work on my Kubuntu distro.

And then there's this list of problems with Wayland.

https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277

BEGIN RANT

"Move fast and break things" may be fine for software gurus who love to experiment and have no problem hitting their head against the wall every few days while believing in the promise of a free-to-fix future, but this isn't true for poor or busy people who are NOT middle class folks living in their own house in a suburb with a garage full of computer parts. There are single parents, caregivers with disabled and/or elderly, folks who need a reliable computer for their studies, and in general people who simply need something that JUST WORKS.

I'm a caregiver, and unfortunate I'm poor enough that I don't have money to buy a commercial OS. Heck, I wish Windows just worked instead of making old versions obsolete. I was perfectly fine with Windows 7 ten years ago until Microsoft started doing planned obsolescence bullshit with their forced updates. I had to switch to Linux because Windows became very unreliable and I needed a stable platform that wouldn't ruin my work.

(So if you're one of the persons who reply to "Help my Linux is having problems" with "well you should know Linux is like that, you should have thought it twice before switching", then you're part of the problem because that's a very, very shitty answer to give to a non technical end user with limited time and resources)

The year of the Linux desktop will never arrive if developers keep pushing incomplete and buggy software to the end users instead of actually fixing bugs and delivering their stuff ONLY when they're ready.

Wayland is NOT ready for the end user.

END RANT.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago

if developers keep pushing incomplete and buggy software to the end users instead of actually fixing bugs

My understanding is, the issue is that fixing bugs in X has become too much of an issue due to bloat and bad historical architecture, so the developers working on it - and providing the software for free, if not working for free - instead worked together to develop a new standard aiming to fix the issues inherent to X's code and design.

The "list of problems" is absolute bullshit right from the start. The first two sections are "It didn't used to work like this in X, Wayland is trash!" and "I had some screen recording software using X APIs and they don't work when not running in X!". In fact, a lot of them follow this pattern, blaming Wayland because it doesn't have 100% backwards compatibility. It's not an X rewrite, it's meant to be a new, better piece of software.

I will not deny that Wayland has problems, of course - but those mostly come down to NVidia refusing to support open protocols, missing features that are yet to be implemented, and missing software support for Wayland.

I will also say that on Arch, which doesn't assume I'm using X, Wayland does work completely fine for me when following instructions. It might be an issue with the distro you're using not having good support, or one of those edge cases like problematic hardware. I definitely agree that you should stick with X for now if you have problems, but I'll also say that you're getting it for free, and if you don't report problems, they might also not know about them, for example because it only occurs on specific hardware.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (7 children)

Move fast and break things

Bro, wayland is 15 years old

CC BY-NC-SA 4.0

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Niche X11 projects die, niche wayland projects emerge... Nothing's really gonna change here. And packages SHOULD be unified. There is no response reason to package chromium in 15 different ways for every distro.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

Wayland has been great for several years now. Things change, especially technology.

I always found it so strange when the biggest tech nerds get upset about change.

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