this post was submitted on 22 Dec 2024
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Mildly Infuriating

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Good luck finding a jury to convict him of jaywalking.

Some homicides are self defence.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 hours ago

We're in a pretty nice bubble here on Lemmy and the fediverse. There's a LOT of bootlickers who happily want him convicted

[–] [email protected] 25 points 6 hours ago

The comparison is definitely stupid because this guy planned the whole thing! Its not like he accidentally started a rebellion in an accidentally treasonous way while trying to steal the office of a high government official. Everyone knows the punishment for that is ...another 4 years of government.

[–] [email protected] 47 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

My personal tinfoil hat is that they are seeking the death penalty so he accepts a deal. They are scared of jury nullification.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 6 hours ago

That isn't tinfoil-hat at all. I was reading a news story recently about how worried they are that they'll have trouble finding impartial jurors, since there's so much sympathy for him.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

This is a dumb take. Since 2005 you cannot use capital punishment for minors see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roper_v._Simmons

Most school shooters are under 18, Luigi is 26.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 5 hours ago

Looking at this, the vast majority of them are adults: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States_by_death_toll

The far bigger reason is that most don't survive to be prosecuted.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

I do believe it would be a tactical error on their part to give him the death penalty... make a real martyr

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 hours ago

Yeah, killing him seems like the best way to get riots all over the country...

[–] [email protected] 61 points 11 hours ago (4 children)

The state of New York is about to get a firsthand lesson in the Streisand Effect. They should have just charged him the same charge any normal killer would get - Second Degree Murder, which is the normal charge for premeditated murder in NY. First degree requires rare special circumstances, and the prosecutor chose to use a dubious "terrorism" modifier to up the charge to Murder 1. They just couldn't help themselves, and they shot themselves in the foot.

The advantage to the prosecution to a simple Murder 2 charge is that motive really doesn't matter much. They just have to prove that Luigi pulled the trigger. But with the terrorism modifier, the trial will no devolve into lengthy discussions about his motives and message. Not only have they now given him the world's largest soapbox, but this will also give the defense an opportunity to make him much more sympathetic to the jury. With only a Murder 2 charge, the defense lawyer would have had to fight hard to sneak subtle hints into trial about Luigi's motives. Now his motives will be a core part of the prosecution's case.

With a simple Murder 2 trial, even jurors who thought Thompson got what he deserved could vote to convict based simply on the letter of the law. Luigi killed an evil man, but he still has to face the consequences like any other criminal. Now the jury will clearly see that the system isn't treating him like any other criminal. The prosecutors, through their own actions, are making Luigi's case for him - the justice system is completely rigged in favor of the rich and powerful, and the only way they can ever be held accountable is through violence.

All it takes is one juror of twelve to look around at the situation and say, "this is bullshit. I'm not going to convict." Sure, they can try him again with a new jury if he's not found unanimously not-guilty, but that jury will have an even greater risk of jury nullification. The longer this goes on, the more likely the prosecutor just has to offer him some sweetheart plea deal just to get him convicted of something. And each trial just elevates Mangione that much closer to literal Sainthood in the popular imagination.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 10 hours ago

Except in every step things can develop the ways you haven't thought about.

And courtroom shows are kinda common enough in movies and even in reality. People will have strong feelings, but this doesn't seem a major thing for many.

So - too much copium. I hope you are right and I am wrong, of course.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 hours ago

Yeah, first degree requires a deep look into the motives, which is really good for him.

Here's some legal analysis by legal eagle https://youtu.be/vXkH-G_8xew

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Land of Double Standards.

Pulling an excerpt from George Carlin: "Politicians hide behind three things in this country: The Flag, The Bible and Children. No child left behind! It wasn't long ago you were talking about giving children a headstart. Headstart, Left Behind. Someone's losing fucking ground here."

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

He spoke the truth but most of us were too young to understand but how did boomers miss these money shots.

They were the audience

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 10 hours ago (4 children)

US citizens, are you planning to protest?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 hours ago

We would, but most of us are too unhealthy from lack of access to affordable healthcare and can lose our jobs if we try to take time off work.

Tinfoil hat time. Our government fucking hates our asses. Lower class? Get shot, die from preventable diseases, whatever, just do it quietly so it doesn't bother the wealthy while they grease each other's palms.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 hours ago

We have the Russian "and then it got worse" do nothing attitude. We aren't even gonna try to do anything till its far too late.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Protests within US are limited to major cities otherwise logistics are fucked due to suburb lay out of the most of the country.

Also, most of are just too docile, it ain't an issue I til they personally get fucked.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

That’s their point: America never does anything. People love to act like they stand for something, but cower at the slightest consequence or inconvenience.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Last time we had a major protest in the city of Chicago, 24 people died. That's a little more than "the slightest consequence or inconvenience"

Luigi's protest was way more efficient. Only one person has died.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 hours ago

And the weirdly most people under 40 are in clear alignment for weeks now lol

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

When we have protests large enough to get noticed, we get attacked by the police. Why should the protesters have to suffer? Make the oppressors suffer instead.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 hours ago
[–] [email protected] 47 points 12 hours ago (11 children)

They really gonna try to turn this guy into a martyr?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 21 minutes ago

Who are "they"?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 hours ago

Adding "Mangione gets a shrine" to my 2025 bingo

[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

Then we need to make him a saint.

St. Luigi of Baltimore, forgive us our debts, deliver us from the greed of the wicked...

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

Yes there are double standards but this is the wrong comparison to make that point.

Most school shooters are minors who are inelligible for the death penalty, and a large percentage don't survive their own shooting. Either death by cop or suicide.

I have no love for insurance CEOs or our capital-first justice system, but if you're gonna make a point don't leave it open to be so easily picked apart.

[–] [email protected] 89 points 15 hours ago (3 children)

Because it's about sending a message. They've seen how popular this guy and his actions have become and are trying to throw everything at him so it puts off any copycats.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 hour ago

Except all they have done is make him a martyr, and now anyone who wants to be infamous is more likely to do something.

[–] [email protected] 61 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

True, hopefully it will backfire.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 13 hours ago (4 children)

Death penalty increases violence because murdering the person catching you becomes a way to increase your likelihood of surviving.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

So basically, killing Luigi would not make copycats less likely, but it WOULD make it more likely for copycats to shoot CEOs AND cops?

Hmm.. The killing of Luigi itself would be awful, of course, but the consequences of it sound like a win to me 🤔

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 hours ago

[oh no... Anyway. PNG]

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

We're just going to ignore that school shooters are generally minors and thus not treated the same as adults? Okay then.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 hours ago

37 under 18 compared to 33 over 18. Close to a 50/50 split. Link

[–] [email protected] 48 points 14 hours ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 28 points 14 hours ago

The [email protected] community seemed dead so I posted it here instead.

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