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My move to Linux (lemmy.ml)

submitted 1 month ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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This is a 12 year dream. I have always run a Windows workstation along side a Debian laptop. I am no stranger to Debian. I have a 12 year association with it. I am not a Linux wizard yet but have been adept with it.

Why not use Debian daily then? My personal computing usage unfortunately centered around consumption rather than creation. I watched videos, listened to podcasts, read technical articles, and browsed social media. On top of this, inertia and great software like Visual Studio, Notepad++, Excel, OneDrive held me back.

Visual Studio is an absolute must-have for all .NET developers. I built small pieces of complex web projects only occasionally. VS Code on Linux is decent for .NET development but it is not the same. Though Jetbrains Rider existed along-side, it is unthinkable to drop Visual Studio. At least for dark matter developers.

Notepad++ is a fabulous software program that had no complete alternatives on Linux. I used it for scripting, text manipulation, note taking, dumping and editing thoughts. Scintilla-based equivalents Geany, SciTE exist, but do not come close.

MS-Office Excel is another remarkable software program with no real alternatives in other ecosystems. It is worth the 5K INR per year. Organizing data, life planning, and creating simple reports are a few of its greatest capabilities. Also, the formulas system is amazing. OneDrive is another great and a utilitarian software program from the Microsoft stable.

So, why now? I had the most fun and growth when I built things. I love the independence that comes with the experience of building things. As far as I can remember, I was always a tinkerer, thinker, builder, doer and explorer. After a decade or so of inaction, I needed a change. A few things fell into place recently.

Windows is about to get a whole lot more annoying. An increase in ads, baked-in Copilot, and a suffocating push to outlook user-linked usage.
Jetbrains Rider became formidable now for CLI and web app development.
I learnt enough of apt-pinning, backports and makedeb repository.
The last straw is from an unexpected experience. I set up a Win 11 VM recently using the KVM+QEMU route. I noticed that the VM's performance was quite responsive. KVM+QEMU despite all the pain felt worthy. I cannot recommend it enough.

Immediately I decided to remove Windows, install Debian with a Windows VM inside. I will write about various experiments and experiences over the next year. These are some of the sub-projects on my mind in no particular order.

Write about this setup
Implement a nice 3-2-1 backup strategy
Write about significant alternatives
Write about significant issues
Linking to phone
Configure monitoring, notifications and alerts
Configure auto dark mode
Find a way to play an old strategy game on Linux

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 month ago (5 children)

I just don't get the love for notepad++

I started using it as my main back in 2006ish, I then switched to sublime text about 2011, then about 5-6 years ago to VSCode. All the time using vim for any in-terminal quick edits.

Notepad++ is easily my least favourite editor of the lot, by several miles, it just seems so rigid and clunky without even going into how it's windows only. Every editor I've used since has been a huge improvement over the one prior IMO

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Agree on all counts about Notepad++ "oldness"

slower when we have 100 files open
clunky
rigid
old GUI paradigms ( settings modal, find modal etc)
inflexible and less customizable UI chrome area

Few things I like about Notepad++ enough to actually keep on using it on work workstations:

Plugins ecosystem. I am too entrenched into it.
- PoormansSqlFormatter
- Tidy2
- JSTool
- XML Tools
- ComparePlus
- TextFx2
great built-in editing operations Edit > EOL
great bookmarking operations
Very active development
Way faster than VS Code for text manipulation tasks

Geany with Plugins with is great but misses out on the above stuff

Sublime is the only one and I could use it for a serious amount of time. I only went back because I could not often get it installed in some enterprises.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Cheers for the response, I appreciate it!

I'm curious about the plugins as obviously I'm not gonna be familiar with the notepad++ plugin ecosystem now—what's special about the ones you listed?

Assuming edit EOL is just changing the line termination characters, all editors have that don't they? Or does this not do what I think?

Intrigued about VSCode being slow for text manipulation too—I remember this being a big reason I dropped notepad++ for sublime and IMO VSCode and sublime more or less have parity on that front, particularly with vim bindings

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago

I never used npp as my code editor but as a secondary program that i kept notes in and would paste text in to manipulate then move back into code editor. It had a rich plugin ecosystem way before that was common. I use Kate for those purposes instead now

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago

I couldn’t agree more. I had a foot in both the MacOS and Microsoft Windows worlds at the time and can appreciate what a game changer notepad++ became. Having used BBEdit on the Mac since around the mid 90s, it was kinda more like “it’s about time” a decade later when notepad++ was released. I’m not necessarily comparing them feature to feature, but it was a much needed piece of software for Windows. I still have memories of opening up text files and being like … damn someone f’d this txt file up on a windows machine.. again.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Many many years ago I switched from OS X back to Linux and had to find alternatives: https://jeena.net/why-i-switchedfrom-osx-to-linux

For the three software you point as a must have there are alternatives, even those you'd not think of:

Visual Studio - Stop writing .NET web applications, there are so many other web frameworks around you don't really need .NET
Notepad++ - It's a steep learning curve but Vim and Emacs give you all and more freedom than Notepad++
Excel - You can use the 365 version in the browser, that is what I do at work
OneDrive works through the browser again, but there are alternatives like Nextcloud, Syncthing, Seafile

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago (5 children)

Thank you for your comment.

.NET is my bread and butter and the C# language is great now. Can't let go. I do have my eyes, and some proficiency, on Go and Python.
I planned to use online Excel for a while, but installed LibreOffice Calc as of now.
For backups, I am trying OneDrive-For-Linux, but eventually plan to have a syncthing based setup.

Regarding the editor, having a similar experience like Notepad++ is not a must, and I used vim on and off but could never stick due to various editing requirements over the years as mentioned in other comment.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

.NET is such a second-class citizen (Mono situation looks shaky now) on non-Microsoft Windows. I mean don’t give it up cold turkey perhaps, but adding new languages to your belt will help you get unshackled from Microsoft.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago (1 children)

This has been a dream of mine and one of my friend's as well. There's a small handful of blockers that I've slowly been transitioning but the upcoming windows pain points you mentioned are definitely recent motivators for me. I'm glad you made it and I hope the rest of us can too! I look forward to reading more about your experience.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

Thank you and I wish you a similar or better success soon. Yes, I do wish to share the writings on this here slow and steadily.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Aw half the fun of linux is all the weird janky software some nerds felt strongly enough about to release.

Npp can be replaced by several different linux tools. You just have to like using the terminal a bit. Personally I get it. I know awk and sed and all those crunchy tools the olds made exist, but it's not a crime to have it all in one place in a gui. That said it npp 1000% works under wine. Sublime Text has a linux version and all the plugins you could ever want if you're willing to learn new ways of doing stuff you've already figured out. Vscodium is also a decent npp replacement. It's fast, has a cli, and a great plugin ecosystem.

Excel is all hype. Unless you're a data analyst or numbers nerd LibreOffice Calc has all the things. It's not as performant as excel with large datasets, but it has formulas, pivot tables (though somewhat weird), and macros. It's just ugly installed from the debian repo. Also if you're paying for office you can probably still use excel in the browser.

OneDrive sucks, unless you are committed to the Microsoft ecosystem. If you find a suitable replacement for excel, you could always cancel your office subscription and setup a nextcloud instance. You can have it all hosted for you through nextcloud and they have web based office tools using LibreOffice. Their syncing app works on everything so you've got options. Or you can try to self-host it. I have a raspberry pi with an external hard drive attached running nextcloud, and a vpn. Reasonably stable, if slow.

I hope that outside of Visual Studio, you can completely free yourself of the windows ecosystem.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago

Aw half the fun of linux is all the weird janky software some nerds felt strongly enough about to release.

My favourites are the ones that just have a Github with absolutely no explanation of what the software does at all. It'll just be like "After two years, blurplr has been refactored to use the updated flerb library instead of flerbp, which is deprecated" and then just a link to a tarball.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I've also recently switched to Linux Mint as my daily driver. Linux + Open-Source is finally in a really good spot. I tell people that switching OSes always takes new learning, but a step-by-step approach is a sustainable one.

Whenever I go back to Windows and see news and ads popping up in my Start Menu, etc, I realize how much shit we were putting up with even pre-Copilot. That's not even including Microsoft Edge forcing itself back as a default program with each major update. It's like the word "consent" doesn't exist to those people.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Hello there!

It's funny, I just made the switch this Monday. I got fed up with Microsoft's bullshit being shoved down my throat. I was going to keep Windows 10 for as long as possible, but a recent update that installed Copilot on my machine was the last straw. I have been a Linux user since 2000 and have been using Ubuntu (and switching flavours) since 2004.

I had a big conversation on the Linux Gaming community about choosing a new distribution as a daily driver. You can see it here.

I wanted to get people's opinion and it started a big thread with lots of responses. It led me to try many distributions to see which ones would be the best fit and read a lot about people's experiences with them as well. In the end, I decided to stick with Kubuntu which was already installed as a dual boot on my system even though I didn't use it much except to tinker from time to time and it was doing a great job. Gaming on it was also working fantastically well. And I knew that every time I booted into it it would always work unless I really started messing with system files and didn't know what I was doing.

So Monday I had a day off and did the jump. Backed up my system, downloaded Kubuntu 24.04.1, booted off the USB stick and wiped the whole system clean.

But I learned something about Kubuntu (and Ubuntu in general) during that experience that made me regret keeping that distro. I knew that Canonical had developed their own sandboxed package system like Flatpak: Snaps. They were already available in 22.04, which I was running, but I didn't really pay attention. Upon installing Kubuntu 24.04, I realized just how much Canonical insisted that Snaps be used. Some software is now exclusively available as Snaps and nothing else. This unacceptable for me.

To be fair, Snaps aren't THAT bad. It's pretty comparable to Flatpak in general in terms of features except for the fact that they are stored locally in their compressed form while Flatpaks are uncompressed. So the startup time of Snaps is slower. But they both offer sandboxing and therefore an added layer of security. This is great for apps like internet clients (browsers, email, etc.) or even servers or any kind of software, especially in an immutable system meant for IoT. Baeldung's website explains the differences pretty well.

I'd probably use snaps for certain scenarios, but I think Canonical is pushing the limit by forcing people to use them. And also they've said they wouldn't support Flatpak in future releases, even though it has become very popular and is being adopted much more than Snaps by third party software providers. I'm fairly certain Snaps are going to go the same way as Bazaar and Unity over time. In any case, I've been able to get around Snaps enough that it's tolerable for the moment.

So now I've been considering starting over with Debian stable instead. I'm already used to Apt and .deb packages and the Debian way of doing things. I'm looking for stability over having the latest and greatest software and honestly, a 2 year release cycle is not that bad. Plus there's backports as well. Almost everyone is saying "Debian is too far behind! Packages are too old!" but what's "old" anyway? 6 months??? Honestly that's not a big deal for me. I just want my system to boot and be very confident that it'll work and won't break during my next apt-get upgrade. Debian offers this peace of mind. But, after using Ubuntu for so long with all its quality of life improvements, Debian looks pretty rough around the edges in comparison.

I think I'll stick with my Kubuntu for a bit and see how it goes and if I really get frustrated at Snaps, I'll switch to Debian. But, right now I've spent enough time setting up my system that I feel too lazy to switch.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago

“Debian is too far behind! Packages are too old!”

The best rule of thumb I've ever heard regarding Debian Stable is that if the kernel in stable's default repo fully supports ALL your hardware, and the software in stable's default repos fully support your workflows, it's fine.

If those are NOT true, then you probably don't want to use Stable, because you'll either end up fighting it via manually compiled and installed software, or you'll venture into so many 3rd party repos for updated packages that updating it later becomes problematic and prone to making the whole system catch fire and burn down.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago

If you absolutely need functionality of some Windows only applications on Linux, it's a bit clunky, but a solution exists to use a VM to integrate the Windows apps into your Linux environment. It's called winapps, and I use it to run the latest version of Excel, which I do need for some things. Here's their GitHub: https://github.com/Fmstrat/winapps

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

Notepad++ is a fabulous software program that had no complete alternatives on Linux. I used it for scripting, text manipulation, note taking, dumping and editing thoughts. Scintilla-based equivalents Geany, SciTE exist, but do not come close.

Really? No alternatives on Linux? Have you tried Emacs? I think Emacs with Org mode blows Notepad++ out of the water in all the uses you just mentioned.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Not free, but I love sublime text.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I always loved how super fast it was. I did use it for a year or so some years back. But I will try it out again in a while.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Yes. Emacs/Vim is different than the traditional Notepad++ experience. For someone using Visual Studio daily, Notepad++ is relatively the same editing experience. I did use TextPad for a while before discovering Notepad++.

I did try Vim for few times on and off. I could not stick to it as I had to work on few different software areas like C#/ASP.NET, then Python, and some build scripts (windows) and more recently Terraform. I know if I could master one of Vim / Emacs I could do all this in one editor, but as I alluded to in another comment it could take a long time for this mastery.

That said, I do have a massive respect to devs who could do this.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago (2 children)

If you want a similar editor on Linux, then I suggest Kate. If Vim and Emacs didn't exist, I'd be using Kate.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

Kate is so good, I switched to it once atom was discontinued and only stopped using it when I finally got around to setting up neovim to have all the things I need

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Yes, thanks for the recommendation. I heard about Kate but have actually yet to try it out.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I use Kate daily, all the time. It has plugins, there is LSP support, I just dont know how it works, and you can write and download code snippets!

The UI is customizable and modern too.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You had me at LSP support :)

This is a second recommendation in this post, so I will have to try it sooner than Sublime. Firing up my apt...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Good luck and report on your LSP experiences? For me I had strange errors, using it on Fedora

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You can grab Kate from the Windows Store right now. Get all of the KDE apps, they're pretty much the only good stuff on there.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago

Old school Unix guy here...vi,awk and sed are all that you need.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Also made the switch not too long ago, only using Manjaro. Steam's proton had gotten extremely good at playing Windows games, so there's a good chance that it could run your old strategy game.

You might already have this on your set-up, but having wine auto-launch for Windows executables has been fantastic. I regularly pull and run Windows executables without really giving it a second thought, and so far it's generally "just worked."

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Manjaro

I highly recommend avoiding manjaro like the plague, their team is incredibly incompetent (see: https://manjarno.pages.dev/ ), I say this as someone who has given people manjaro for years and regretted it, I was also their it person, manjaro regularly broke every few months and gave people a very bad taste of linux

for example, why are kernels given version numbers in packages? This caused 3 separate peoples computers to break multiple times. Everything good about manjaro comes from arch, everything bad about manjaro comes from the manjaro team.

Y’know how it’s not rolling release because they delay packages by 2 weeks? They actually do no testing in this time. How do I know this? They pushed an update that caused steam to uninstall your desktop environment. Famously covered by linus tech tips… this is something that should have easily been caught, and yet the two week window did absolutely nothing.

the truth is for manjaro there is no real usecase, there’s no set of desires that align with manjaro being the best choice for you. I am not asking you to switch away from manjaro, but I do not think we should ever recommend it to anyone, and on your next machine, I recommend trying the arch installer.

But if what you’re looking for is an easy pre-setup arch, use endeavoros

If you want something simple and up to date, use fedora kinoite

If you’re a power user and want to configure every little thing about their system, use arch or nixos

If you don’t care at all about updates and want the most rock solid system possible, debian.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I agree with your reservation about Manjaro. However, you did get one thing wrong:

They pushed an update that caused steam to uninstall your desktop environment. Famously covered by linus tech tips…

That was Pop!_OS (unless it happened a second time??)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

You're right, my bad, I misremembered!

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Heyy, I'm too in the process of moving from windows (10) to debian :) (though I'm very new to linux, but not new to open source software)

I was surprised that notepad++ didnt have native support for linux and while I tried many stuff, indeed I couldnt find a real replacement. I have kinda concluded that I will either use bottles with wine to run notepad++ (takes around half a minute to open) or use Geany and try to customize it as much as I can. (There are also Notepadqq which is kinda dead and NotepadNext which is still in very early stage.) I'll probably go with Geany and chech on NotepadNext if it evers becomes good enough.

I had a recent post about running windows stuff on linux and people gave me some good advice here: https://mander.xyz/post/18701186

Edit: I just found Textadept, might check it later (found it from a comment under this video).

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I have tried notepadqq, it is a bit promising, but I don't think it can use the npp plugins yet. Thanks for the link, I will check it out.

I know of TextAdept and loved it when I used it years back. Loved the extensibility part. Unfortunately could not stick to it mostly due to plugins IIRC.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I see I see

Also, just noticed that your name is debian guy.😆 I guess it makes sense :)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

Haha yeah! :)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Welcome to the resistance! 😄

I did pretty much similar as you, but about a decade ago. Was it really Windows 8 at the time? 7 perhaps? Even then the OS was becoming increasingly bloated, and crudely implementing channels for Microsoft to milk data from users.

For me it wasn't so much editors and development environment that kept me around, but the Adobe suite — specifically the lack of CMYK support in FLOSS alternatives. In the end I was quite happy to just find workarounds for the few print jobs I would have to do.

Quite often I think people are less resisting a new OS environment than the software available. "I couldn't use the same shortcuts in [FLOSS package] as in [proprietary software], so I went back to Windows"...

I'm not exactly a hardcore Excel user myself, but I'd be interested to hear how your transition to LibreOffice (I guess the most viable alternative?) will work out.