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133

‘More than a duty’: Over 180,000 rally in France against spiraling antisemitism (www.timesofisrael.com)

submitted 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

43 comments fedilink hide all child comments

France has recorded nearly 1,250 antisemitic acts since the attack.

Among the long list of recent antisemitic acts, Paris prosecutors are investigating an incident on October 31, when buildings in the city and suburbs were daubed with dozens of Stars of David.

all 46 comments

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[–] [email protected] 53 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Anti-semitism is evil and should be eradicated. So is Islamophobia. Both of these are out in full force and neither is justified no matter how you feel about Israel and Palestine. It doesn’t help that you have politicians feeding into these.

I’m strongly opposed to Zionism in its present form, but doesn’t mean anyone can cross the line into anti-Semitism. Also, criticizing Zionism is NOT anti-semitism no matter how often the far right tries to claim otherwise.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

I agree wholeheartedly but as an exmuslim would like to state nothing wrong with islamaphobia. Fear and distrust of religion is sensible and necessary for free thought. Muslimphobia which is discrimination against people identifying with the Islamic faith is not ok.

[+] [email protected] -11 points 10 months ago (2 children)

what about the gays in the middle-east? would they be Islamophobic?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Most would be Muslim no matter how little you enjoy that fact.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

Muslims beheading muslims, classic~

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

What about Christians in Israel? Is it OK that they get spit on as they leave church?

What about the Lords Army in Africa, killing people who aren't Christians?

What about the Sihk militant group in Canada that blew up that plane in the 90s?

What about the Buddhist terrorists?

What about the alien dude in Pikmon tossing them around when he knew some would die?

Shall I keep doing more what-is?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

not really my point. pretty sure the gays in the middle-east are terrified of islamic terrorists who want to behead them.

[+] [email protected] -14 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

Anti-zionism isn't the same as anti-semitism.

But the attention and criticism Israel attracts, while other conflicts and far worse governments are largely ignored, does make me raise an eyebrow.

If you treat someone differently because of their race, it's hard to see how that's not racist.

If you judge governments differently, based on the main ethnicity of the country they represent, that can also be deeply problematic.

I'm sure people mean well, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. People should be more critical of the media they consume and do their research.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

They are being judged harshly because of their repeated lack of empathy and their willingness to commit genocide in broad daylight, as if it was their right. They are being judged harshly because children corpses becomes their main export every few years. It's getting even more media attention because our governments are funding said genocide. There's also the David vs Goliath angle, where the Israel gov looks like a grown man mercilessly beating on a child.

To imply they are being framed as the bad guys simply because of racism is so far off the mark it's laughable.

[+] [email protected] -8 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Since 2014, roughly 400,000 people have died in Yemen. 85,000 of those are Children. France, the UK and the US are involved in that war.

Last time I checked, the death toll for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is something like 40,000 since 1948.

And yet if you go on social or traditional media, you'd think it was the other way around.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

Currently, Israel is killing civilians and children at a higher rate than Yemen. And yemens population is 16 times that of gaza.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The main thing separating both situations is one country has an army of staunch defender ready at a moments notice to hand wave away corpses.

Do you go into the comment section in articles about Yemen and blame the hate and indignation on racism as well? Why not?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Do you go into the comment section in articles about Yemen and blame the hate and indignation on racism as well? Why not?

I've never seen an article about Yemen discussed here on the fediverse.

Have you?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

That's because there is nothing to discuss. Everybody agrees its fucking terrible.

Why is there always a debate with Israel. What is debatable about making corpses out of children and keeping prison ghettos? Why are you defending them?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I'm not.

I'm pointing out the Israeli-Palestinian conflict gets a disproportionate amount of attention, compared to comparable or significantly worse conflicts.

That’s because there is nothing to discuss. Everybody agrees its fucking terrible.

Do they?

Is ignoring something a sign someone cares a lot about a subject?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

It gets more attention because the west is directly arming and throwing bombs at Palestinians. Whereas Yemen is a proxy which is a lot more obscure, and the Saudi's and Iranians are directly responsible for that one. And the west was condemning Saudi quite a lot lately because they supposedly needed to catch up in human rights.

Seemingly the west decided it was time to stoop down to Saudi's level though.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I'm saying the conflict gets more attention because there is a side defending the undefendable.

Implying the criticism Israel recieved is because of racism is not only defending them but also rhetoric.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

There is always a side defending the indefensible in a war or genocide. Eg. Xinjiang.

There are very good reasons to be critical of Israel.

The level of media attention and debate is however disproportionate, which is at best weird.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I find the amount of people willing to defend Israel's genocidal apartheid state disporportionate as well as the amount of funds that are giving specifically for it.

It's a complicated situation and it's getting media attention for a number of reasons, I mentioned three in my original reply.

Regardless, nonchalantly trying to blame the whole complicated mess on anti-semitism is pure rhetoric.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It's not because of their race. It's because of the geopolitical interest in Israel other countries have.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

If you judge governments differently, based on the main ethnicity of the country they represent, that can also be deeply problematic.

I judge Israel more harshly than some other governments because quite frankly, they are meant to be the good guys. Similarly, I judge my own government harshly

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Why are they supposed to be 'the good guys'?

Why are other middle-eastern countries implicitly considered 'the bad guys'?

What's wrong with holding Israel to the same standards as other MENA countries, China, Russia, the US, the world?

Why do some victims matter more than others?

Why do some perpetrators get villified more than others?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

Why are they supposed to be 'the good guys'?

This is an emotional reaction on my behalf, but various reasons - historically Israel was formed as a safe place forfor a horribly oppressed people. Historically, their government managed to maintain a separation between religion and the executive powers - the government weren't religous radicals. Obviously this has been eroded substantially in recent years. Internally, there was decent equality between the sexes and it was a fairly liberal democracy. BUT yes - they treated the Palestinians horribly - I was pretty shocked by the dehuanisaing attitude I came across when I visited on business aboout 30 years ago.

Why are other middle-eastern countries implicitly considered 'the bad guys'?
I'm fine with Islam, but I deeply dislike politico-national Islamist ideology. Now some of this is clearly been driven by the appalling way that the Middle East has been treated/exploited by the West - that's not enough to excuse the way that they treat women, LBQT, atheists. Not pleasant societies to live in

What's wrong with holding Israel to the same standards as other MENA countries, China, Russia, the US, the world?

Nothing - I would hope that Israel would hold itself to higher standards that some Islamist countries in terms of liberal society, compassion, adhering to basic human rights

Why do some victims matter more than others?

They don't

Why do some perpetrators get villified more than others?

You'd have to ask the people doing the villifying.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Antisemitism as in hatred towards Jews or antisemitism as in critique of Israel's war crimes?

[–] [email protected] 16 points 10 months ago

Aiming to show the party has changed, “We are exactly where we should be” taking part in the march, Le Pen told reporters shortly before it began, calling any objections “petty political quibbles.”

"we have changed...."

Far-right leader Marine Le Pen — who also encountered protesters as she arrived — declared the march should also serve to stand against “Islamic fundamentalism,” a pet theme of her anti-immigrant party

"...our target."

No score for guessing why Macron didn't attend 😂

[+] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Hi friend. English is stupid sometimes, but I assure you that the word "antisemitism" refers exclusively to Jews. Again I know it's counterintuitive, but that's just how it is. You'll experience less friction of you just go with it instead of try to convince everyone that the word means something else. Cheers.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

And the term computers used to only refer to humans that calculated shit for a living. Language evolves away from vagueness. I support them in pushing for the term to be defined more accurately.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

It's no biggie, I understand the difference, kinda tired of my comments getting clapped though. Especially when the most current one was the most benign. Literally just a pic of a Google definition. Like, I've written bluntly anti-zionist comments in the past 3 days and they're still up, so it's kinda weird.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Antisemitism

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

Wait, why are they downvoting you? That's the correct definition.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 10 months ago

Holy Fuck. France just co-opted Palestine Independence. I don’t know whether to admire it, or be disgusted.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

So. It's hard for me to admit, but the more Israel continues to invade and bomb Gaza citizens into oblivion, the more difficult it is for me to refrain from anti-semitism. I've long fought against prejudice, but now my horror at Israel and Netenyahu's incredible inhumanity is fostering feelings of hate toward the entire nation. I can no longer pretend to be "on the sidelines" and neutral. Over 4100 Palestinian kids having their brains blown out by senseless violence is reason enough to justify the feeling of horror toward Israel.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

You can be anti-Israel without being anti-Jew.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Yes. Theres plenty of Jewish activitsts blocking Isreali consulates and weapons factories in the West. There is also anti war jews in Israel. There are plenty of bloodthirsty, pro war Christian zionists in the West but the anti Christian narrative isint at play here despite they in our political class supporting this fully.

Promoting antisemitism will just make it harder for those people to meaningfully act in solidairty.

" We don’t think you fight fire with fire best ; we think you fight fire with water best. We’re going to fight racism not with racism, but we’re going to fight with solidarity. "

Fred Hampton Sr

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

Being critical of the Israeli govt ≠ antisemitism. This is a propaganda push by pro Israel people, please do not be fooled.