this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2023
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Israeli PM said to have turned down proposal in early talks and continues to take tough line

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[–] [email protected] 96 points 1 year ago (1 children)

He just wants genocide. It's infuriating seeing world leaders pretend they don't get that so they can get what they want out of Palestinian deaths.

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[–] [email protected] 80 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I’ll tell you a secret: he doesn’t want to get the hostages back yet. They’re serving as a casus belli right now.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago (1 children)

won't somebody think of the warmongers?

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[–] [email protected] 69 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Bibi doesn’t want peace, he wants genocide.

[–] [email protected] 50 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

In Bibi's eyes, every day that Hamas continues to exist is a good day. If Hamas ever ceases to exist, Israelis might go back to questioning his corruption charges.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's not very HaBibi of him

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'm amazed the comment above this got downvoted lol like just have a laugh and move on with your life

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[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Well, color me surprised... he's seemed so interested in a peaceful resolution.

[–] [email protected] 47 points 1 year ago (1 children)

He doesn't give a shit about hostages.

If he did, they wouldn't be blowing up all of Gaza.

If any die from IDF strikes, he'll just say that Hamas killed them and use their deaths to justify more bombings.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago

That’s right. So far 60 hostages have gone missing due to Israeli strikes. So, yeah. They don’t give a single shit.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Dude had a chance to stop the whole thing in its tracks and didn't take it.

This has always been about taking the land.

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 year ago (3 children)

All he cares about is escalation. The United States needs to ditch Israel before they get us attacked too.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yep, he's seeing the opportunity to finally kick the Palestinians out.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

Kick out? More like gun down.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 year ago

At this point he doesn't have a choice. Hamas offered to release about a dozen hostages for a ceasefire.

The Israelis repeatedly declared that there won't be any ceasefire without the release of all the hostages.

If he accepts anything else he's most likely to loose all control.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

He'll rather kill them all with his own hands rather than stop the war. The moment genocide is over he's next in line to get fucked. So long hostages. This is what you get for electing sociopaths I guess.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Of course he did.

The hostages are much more valuable to Israel in captivity, so they can continually exploit them for genocidal justifications.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

This is simply not true.

There were talks about up to 15 hostages, of 239 in demand for 4 days of ceasefire. Hamas needs this ceasefire desperately to regroup and assess the damages. The chaos now serves Israel well and apparently it puts much more pressure on Hamas. The ground invasion proves very effective. Maybe as Hamas becomes more desperate the "price" for the hostages will drop. Alternatively, if Israel will allow them to regroup, the war will take significantly more time because it will be much harder to eradicate them. Maybe the Israelis know where the hostages are held and after a ceasefire the hostages will be transferred to a different hideout, or smuggled via the tunnels to Egypt and from there to who knows where.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Neutral and Israel alligned countries have been calling for a humanatarian pause on purely humanitarian grounds. Even if you don't care about the hostages, that Hamas was willing to offer them means that they had an interest in such a pause as well; making Israel the only obstacle to it happening. That is to say, the severity of the humanitarian disaster in Gaza is squarly on Israel's shoulders. The most charitable reading of the situation is that they have determined that the tactical advantage of blocking a humanitarian pause outways the civilian lives they put at risk by doing so.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's not about the hostages any more. They are the excuse Israel needs to eradicate a whole country.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Israel cares a whole lot about its hostages. Evidence for that are the prices they were willing to pay in the past.

But sure, let's go with your logic. Why can't Israel just go carpet-bombing the crowded part in the south of the Gaza strip that all the refugees fled to? It would be a very effective way to eradicate them all. They are so crowded in such a small area that it's possible to kill a couple hundred thousands in a single day. Wow, Israel has a lot to learn on how to ethnically cleanse a region.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago

Of course he doesn't want to de-escalate the situation.

If he did that, things might calm down and fewer people will vote based on his promises of being strong on security. Also if he did that, his hard-right backers (who need a hot conflict to keep taking Palestinian land politically acceptable) will attack him for being 'soft' on security.

The logic of it all is genocide of course, but Bibi wants that if the alternative is him being out of office and back in court defending himself against corruption charges.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (6 children)

For some of the hostages. Not all of the hostages.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Which is a very important distinction that people here seem to overlook. If you give in to a terrorist's and hostage taker's demands you're inviting more terrorism and hostage-taking because it worked.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think Netanyahu has a similar look about his eyes as Putin? It's like they're monsters inside and are communicating how little empathy and concerns for others they have inside, almost as a warning. Anyone else feel the same thing?

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago

I think it's the military training plus a little extra sociopath on the side.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (10 children)

When Putin was invading Ukraine everyone was calling for the Russians to just kill Putin. When Hamas invaded everyone was calling for the Palestinians to kill Hamas themselves.

Awfully silent these days though now israel is the party committing war crimes.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Telling Palestinians to kill Hamas leaders is useless because the top Hamas leaders are actually living abroad, unlike Putin who stay cooped in Russia.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

One source with knowledge of the talks, which slowed after the Israeli ground invasion, said a central point of discussion was a demand by the Israeli side for Hamas to provide a full list specifying the name and details of each person held in Gaza. The Israeli side was unwilling to cease bombardments without receiving this list.

Hamas responded that it was unable to provide the list without a pause in the fighting, as the estimated 240 hostages were held by a number of different groups in places across Gaza. That suggested even Hamas leaders do not know for sure how many people are held captive, their locations or the number who have survived the bombardments.

Another source said Hamas originally demanded prisoner exchanges, fuel and other supplies in return for the hostages, but these demands were dropped in favour of a halt to the airstrikes alone.

“Each time the Israeli counter-demand got harder,” the source said. Members of Hamas have previously said they took hostages in order to exchange them for the thousands of Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails.

...

Sources briefed on the talks told Reuters that the group discussed allowing small amounts of fuel into Gaza for humanitarian purposes, which Israel has so far refused, as well as the deal to free a small number of hostages in exchange for a ceasefire of one or two days. The outcome of the talks, however, remained unclear.

It sounds like these sources may be members of Hamas' negotiating team, which I don't exactly know that that's a reliable source.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

It doesnt sound like complete BS that Hamas probably doesnt know the exact number, names and placement of hostages at the moment. They probably have a good idea but no definite list.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Globally, we're going to need to develop approaches for de-radicalizing large groups of people. Even if we can start on the direction towards peace in this situation, both the Israeli and some segments of Palestinian people seem radicalized to the point of no return, where no true solutions is even possible. I see the same thing in the US with whatever tf you want to call the Republican party. They're over the cliff. No pulling them back. Yet we need a way to de-radicalize these people otherwise there is no path forward.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You dont have to leave Israel and palestine to find more groups. Have you seen what kinds of people bibi is courting to stay in power? Ultra-orthodox far right netters who are publically asking for a cleansed ethno-state.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

Scum propping up scum as always.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Considering it wasn't a return of all of the hostages and additionally Hamas said they intend to repeat the terrorist attack that sparked this, what motivation does Netanyahu have to stop until Hamas is destroyed?

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago (31 children)

That Hamas did was abhorrent, as was the response of Israel.

What motivation do Hamas have to just take the current occupation of Gaza and living in such a way? Genuinely curious.

This just seems like nobody will win and everybody will suffer. For what?

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (19 children)

Well, lucky for him he didn't even entertain the ceasefire to see if he could have gotten them all back.

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