"Cool, what form does your agitation come in?"
"Encouraging apathy, and demonization of the only non-fascist candidate with a chance to win without suggestion of realistic alternatives"
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"Cool, what form does your agitation come in?"
"Encouraging apathy, and demonization of the only non-fascist candidate with a chance to win without suggestion of realistic alternatives"
Most "agitators" on here can't even vote.
Discourage apathy by putting your fingers in your ears and shout about how impossible making any positive change is instead!
"Changing 50 years of foreign policy on an issue most American voters don't regard as important (however horrific that is) isn't going to happen because the left-wing is threatening to let a fascist take power; that's literally the opposite of the scenario that should be happening for improvement"
Putting your fingers in your ears to drown out the sound of the Overton window screeching to the right is a much better alternative.
Did you get an opportunity to suggest realistic alternatives? Or did the Democratic party steamroll your local primary and rob you of your voice?
I did. I suggested Bernie. Not enough people agreed with me, apparently.
If I were encouraging apathy, I'd be trying to get people to ignore an important issue by arguing 'change simply isn't realistic so it's better to just shut your eyes to it'
Sorry, but what are you encouraging then? Like, what's the ask?
OP's only ask is "feel bad enough about Biden and the Democrats to stay home in November." That's it. That's the whole thing.
I just noticed the username, and I've argued with this guy before. You're spot on, he does not have a sincere argument.
See my response to themeatbridge.
The goal is to stop democrats from continuing to support a genocide (min) and a genocidal project (max)
The route is through moderates, who would really like to not talk about this issue, because while it is something they agree with, pointing to something bad that they are contributing to threatens to weaken their voting base. Any political agitation necessarily implicitly makes that threat, and it's intentional, because otherwise the moderate would have no reason to push for it.
So what you're saying is that you're a single-issue voter.
Single issue voters exist and Biden must take them into account.
Single-issue voters aren't capable of rational political conversation, or thought processing. They will be attracted to whichever charlatan offers to scratch their particular itch.
If you can't grasp nuance, you really aren't qualified to have political opinions.
Single-issue voters aren’t capable of rational political conversation, or thought processing. They will be attracted to whichever charlatan offers to scratch their particular itch.
And despite that, they continue to exist and continue to be a factor with which Biden must contend.
If you can’t grasp nuance, you really aren’t qualified to have political opinions.
And yet, single issue voters are voters. No matter how much you want to disenfranchise them for disagreeing with you.
Note that nowhere during this conversation have I said that I am a single-issue voter. I'm voting for Biden despite his support for genocide. If you don't understand the difference between acknowledging the existence of single issue voters and actually being one, don't talk to others about nuance.
So your aim is only to cast aspersions on Democrats, got it.
Surely you're aware of the two-party system of politics in the United States, one where if Democrats lose, Republicans win, and those Republicans will do the genocide you claim to hate so much even harder, not to mention royally fucking things up for huge swaths of people domestically, handing Ukraine over to Russia (which extends to directly threatening the rest of Europe/NATO), and walking away from Taiwan, for starters.
You don't want to "end genocide," you want to get Republicans elected.
Hey now let’s not forget, abandoning Ukraine and Taiwan means that Russia and China get to do some genocide as well.
So your aim is only to cast aspersions on Democrats, got it.
Because they are the ones who claim to agree, but apparently lack sufficient motivation to stop obstructing progress.
but apparently lack sufficient motivation to stop obstructing progress.
"Yeah, a fascist victory will motivate those fuckers! Take that, moderates! Maybe next election you'll-"
If agitating this issue is enough to make that threat real then it's enough for them to address it. It's that simple.
Address it... how? By swapping their position and losing even more votes from those with a pro-Israel position?
By swapping their position and losing even more votes from those with a pro-Israel position?
Either by swapping their position and making their case to those who disagree with it,
or
keeping their position and attempt justifying it to those who disagree with it
keeping their position and attempt justifying it to those who disagree with it
The fuck do you think they've been doing.
The problem with that is their position is "let's keep supporting genocide" which isn't a justifiable position.
Nothing particularly convincing to anyone paying attention.
I have yet to hear their justification on ignoring the war crimes committed by an ally. I'll happily ruminate on it if I did.
Nothing particularly convincing to anyone paying attention.
Okay, so they are doing what you want them too, you just still don't like it enough to work to stop fascism.
Ok, but that's an aspiration, not an action plan. What are you asking people to do? Who should they vote for? Where should they make political donations? Imagine you have convinced someone you're right. What's their next step?
What are you asking people to do?
stop pushing this issue to the side and make it a priority
join in pushing your representatives to change their policy
The second point requires you do the bare minimum of raising the issue. The more you raise the issue the less your representative can ignore it.
Who should they vote for?
People should vote for the least bad option according to their own priorities. But if all you're doing is voting than you haven't done anything to address the issue being raised, and you are still a part of the problem. If, in response to this issue being raised, is simply 'but the other guy is worse', you've done nothing but obstructed progress and you'll be called out on it by the few of us who are doing the work of agitation.
Where should they make political donations?
In my opinion: to any organization that supports the end to the genocide. I recommend any of these progressives currently under threat by the AIPAC
Imagine you have convinced someone you’re right. What’s their next step?
Use whatever platform they have available to spread the message that democrats must end their support to Israel's war crimes. Make it clear that they risk losing their re-election if they continue dodging the issue.
Make it clear that they risk losing their re-election if they continue dodging the issue.
"If I don't get the policy change I want, fascism is an acceptable alternative" - People Who Are DEFINITELY Not Fascists(tm)