this post was submitted on 23 Jun 2024
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Having to go to an unexpected meeting really messes with the flow of your whole day. (lemmy.ml)
submitted 4 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 30 points 4 months ago (4 children)

"Decline."

Working in IT, I have learned that a lot of meetings are by people who gain "respect and notoriety" by having large meetings. It doesn't matter who shows up, it's the number, that makes them seem popular. "Get the engineers in here, this is serious business!" You begin to learn which PMs do this, and can respond (or not) accordingly. If they ping you "where are you?" you can say, "I am in an [client] audit call. I cannot leave this call while the audit is taking place." Or whatever your industry equivalent is. YMMV, some toxic environments I have been in, this was not possible.

I remember one PM was frozen in indecision. I had to tell him, "I can fix the problem, or having a meeting about it. Pick one."

"Well, both--"

"No. I can fix the problem, or having a meeting about it. Pick one or the other."

"I need you in this meeting!"

"When we explain to the customer that the fix was delayed by an hour, I can use YOUR name, as having a meeting about it instead of fixing it, correct?"

"The meeting is to be about fixing it!"

"No. I can fix the problem, or having a meeting about it. Pick one or the other."

"... we can have the meeting in your office, then."

Eventually, my boss shooed him away.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 4 months ago

This is why every project should have at least one of those rare engineers who can actually concisely explain a problem and solution in layman's terms to the PM. Asking the PM to just trust your solution on faith is a bigger ask than you realize.

This is also why you shouldn't have PMs who have zero technical knowledge of what the actual project they're managing is. PMs need to be smart enough to understand the basic idea of what the engineers are telling them. A really good PM will spend time learning at least the basics of the field their engineers work in.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I've been in this scenario a few times lol. Spot on.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago

This shits me off so hard. engineers can work or can respond to questions.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago

Working in IT, I have learned that a lot of meetings are by people who gain “respect and notoriety” by having large meetings. It doesn’t matter who shows up, it’s the number, that makes them seem popular. “Get the engineers in here, this is serious business!”

Narcissists always climb to the top positions...by stepping on people to get there.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Actually the right side graph needs a correction from my point of view. The decline in productivity doesn't happen sharply when the meeting starts. For me the decline starts between 15 to 30 minutes before the meeting slowly, as I can hardly concentrate concerned that I might miss the start. If I'm ever in hyper concentration mode, most likely I'll miss the start of the meeting.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (2 children)

yep. My understanding though is that this was for a surprise meeting, which you wouldn't know about until it starts.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Ah indeed, you are right, somehow I missed the unexpected part. I guess because this applies to just about any meeting to me, not only the unexpected ones so I just applied it generally x)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

I can definitely relate. The time before a planned event is basically ruined for me... unless I set an alarm, but I dislike the brutality of it

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

yep. My understanding though is that this was for a surprise meeting, which you wouldn’t know about until it starts.

yes, but the guy above you is also correct

[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 months ago

As an engineer I approve this message

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago (1 children)

This is the best explanation for why this happens that I've ever read.

https://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html

I heard about it on Freakonomics, and having been both a creative and a manager it really hits home.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

Absolutely great write up. Thanks for sharing it, I didn't know of it and I'm saving it to share when applicable.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago

the worst is the unexpected meeting a couple hours later because then you also get the pre meeting productivity drop as well (from the mental anguish of having to go to that meeting an hour later)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I have been having to attend these asinine meetings for an hour a day for the last month when they were twice a week for far less time. But since we have an emergency situation the whole plan is discussed with everyone so many times. I know it's a pain, but I feel it takes me away from what I should be working on. I hate it.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago

Oh yeah I love that corporate mindset - there's a major issue so let's take even more time away from fixing the problem.

The issue is management only has one tool (meetings), and if you only have a hammer everything looks like a nail. Surely another meeting will fix it.